Oh, so just to prevent thread-jacking, here’s your post to discuss all the excitement of Impact and RAW until Michael sends me his Impact review.
Oh, so just to prevent thread-jacking, here’s your post to discuss all the excitement of Impact and RAW until Michael sends me his Impact review.
RAW was good. Not sure if Batista bladed or got cut hardway but it made for a cool visual. I am looking forward to Bret and Vince, the crowd sure ate the swerve up. Didn’t watch Impact yet but read the reports and it looked meh.
I was disappointed with the Bret/Vince segment only because I set my hopes too high. I kept waiting for Austin to announce himself as the Special Guest Referee and felt let down when he didn’t. Taken on its own merits, though, I liked the segment. I would have liked to have seen the Stu Hart induction video but maybe we’ll get to see it next week?
I was surprised Austin didn’t do a Stunner but it’s probably for the best–what’s the point of him getting the best of someone since they’d never be able to get their heat back from him? At first, I was surprised he was wearing a plain black T-shirt instead of an Austin 3:16 shirt but once I saw the clips of the movie where he wears a black shirt, it made more sense. I found it funny every time they tried to censor ass but got the words after it instead.
For someone that his buggered his knee as often as he has, Bret really has no idea how to pretend to need a crutch.
“Buggered” his knee? Really, chap?
Maybe the point was to make it so apparent that everyone could see he was faking but Mr. McMahon, in all his arrogance, fails to see the obvious?
That’s what I thought.
Man, you guys will just explain away any Bret shortcoming won’t you?
When they can be easily explained with logic and one’s own eyeballs, yes.
He has plenty of shortcomings that can’t be easily explained, but you didn’t ask about any of those, did you?
Why exactly would they want the audience to know in advance that Vince was being swerved? The whole point is to surprise everybody. Building excitement.
No, the whole point was to build to Mr. McMahon finding out that Bret was okay, and having the crown look forward to the moment that Vince realizes he’s in for an ass kicking. Unlike what Russo 101 would have you believe, wrestling is better when everyone is in on the bad guy getting his comeuppance.
Since you will need the last word, let me reply to your zinger in advance: Oh, snap!
Typical ‘nobody is allowed to have a different opinion’ super-smark response. Its good to have a suspicion that its a swerve. Not that it be obvious. Otherwise, why did they try so hard to make the original incid3nt look so real? Eh?
LOL!!
Bret is my favorite, but that’s funny stuff.
Form both of you I mean.
I enjoyed the interplay between Austin and Vince very much, especially the way Vince slowly turned in his chair and glared at Austin as he walked up the ramp at the end. They don’t like each other, they never have, and for one night it was great to see that again. If Austin tried to come back full time and play the same part I do think it would get old quick, but I enjoyed the hell out of it last night.
Also credit for scripting the shots in a manner that made it perfect for TV. The live crowd was a bit ahead of the game, but the switch back to the shot of Vince with the cast on the table was perfect.
Yeah, that was the best part of last night. The big reveal that Bret was faking could’ve been really hokey, but they pulled it off just right. Bret had been taken advantage of almost every week, and now he finally revealed that he’s more of the “Hitman” than people were probably starting to think.
Bret said in an interview recently he walked on the ‘bad’ leg as a hint to the crowd that he was faking it. The angle right from the beginning seemed obvious to me? Intentional or not I think Bret did a great job of selling the leg with the intention of lying about it at the same time.
The angle hasn’t been great, but I felt it delivered this week. Bret came out looking really strong and isn’t the annoying sympathic figure that I thought they may run with originally… he is looking for revenge and will play dirty games to get his moment with Vince.
Impact is going the way of WCW. They gave away a potential great PPV main event in Hardy vs. Styles. Although, I’m sure it won’t matter because Hogan will be champ in 6 – 8 weeks.
What in the booking leads you to believe that?
Shh, this is the Internet. Hogan and HHH are obsessed with being champ. Even though Hogan’s said he doesn’t want to wrestle regularly, we’ll ignore it and assume he’s going to pin AJ Styles as soon as possible.
I know you were being sarcastic, but I honestly don’t know how anyone could infer that Hogan will win the title. While he’s been a focal point of the show I think Hogan has done a goo job of giving Abyss a good rub
Batista/Cena should realllllly be a street fight.
It might be better that way, but that would basically mean 3 street fights at WM..
RAW definitely served its purpose and that was a very hard sell for WrestleMania. It was great seeing Stone Cold again in a WWE ring, the crowd was nuts the entire night which really helped. This WM build has actually been the best I’ve seen in a really long time, each and every feud has some history behind it, has made for some good TV.
On the other hand, Impact once again feels very second rate and thrown together to me. Even little things like the lighting and the ring throw me off..It seems that every time I see something good, I see something that makes me want to change the channel right after it. Maybe Crash TV just doesn’t work anymore as much as it did 10 years ago. Add to the fact that your big selling point is that “anything can happen” and it’s taped every other week doesn’t help.
It seems RAW is doing exactly what it would be doing if Impact was still on Thursdays and Impact is seems to be doing everything it can to draw attention to it, I’m not sure if it’s working. Judging from last week’s ratings, it seems I’m not the only one who feels this way. We’ll see if it gets better..I hope it does – competition is a great thing.
Am I the only one wondering what’s happened with Kofi Kingston? Sure, there was some restraint, but he was getting a MONSTER push. I had pegged him as a sure thing for Money in the Bank. Yet he’s pretty much been a non-factor for the past few weeks, only showing up briefly to get beat up by Batista as fodder for the feud with Cena. Have they even solidly decided if MITB is going to be 9 or 10 guys?
Apparently Orton got pissed because he didn’t sell the RKO enough.
Although that’s probably part of it – it was that he screwed up a spot, not the RKO – it’s also that when he lost to Orton at HIAC, they forgot that they had to keep booking him strong since he wasn’t going to turn the tables at the next PPV.
Since they were booking Orton against Sheamus, they probably should’ve had him in the title match as well just so that he’d be seen on that level. Instead, he was more or less wasted in the Rumble. Heck, I think he was just cannon fodder for Cena, since there wasn’t anyone in there for him to feud with as DX had eliminated Legacy.
I have Kofi penciled in for SmackDown come draft time. He can probably reestablish himself there as long as they don’t gut the roster and move all the stars (Punk, Jericho, etc.) back to RAW.
Yeah, Kofi and Christian are probably just cooling their heels on Raw.
I’m 99% convinced that they put Christian on Raw just to have someone to move to Smackdown without a second thought in the draft.
StepGeo is right. It had nothing to do with “selling the RKO,” it had to do with repeatedly blowing big spots. It happened like three weeks in a row, twice with Orton/Legacy and once with Big Show.
I just repeated what I read. Thus ‘Apparently’.
But it isn’t apparent at all.
Its apparent from the report I read.
If thats the case, I love how they’re willing to cut someone off at the knees that they were pushing, but the minute a diva like Maryse stinks up the joint, they put a title on her.
Besides, Orton blew spots on a consistent basis in 03′-early 04′, yet they continued to push him. Even to this day.
On a consistent basis? Other than the botched RKO on Jericho in 03, what are you talking about?
I’ve seen almost every Randy Orton TV match since he debuted, and I certainly don’t remember him “consostently” blowing spots at any point. The closest would be 05/06 when he was really unmotivated, but then he was just generally boring, not sloppy.
Well, “consistently,” anyway. I’m not sure what “consostently” means.
Well, when Randy first debuted and his finisher was the Overdrive, he blew that on a regular basis.
But to be fair, it’s more about the guy selling the move than the guy doing the move. And really, who the hell CAN do that move right? Apparently Elix Skipper invented it and HE couldn’t even do it right. And it’s taken MVP years to actually get it right. The only time it’s ever looked like it hurt was when he did it to Dolph Ziggler in that US title defense with Sherri Shepard at ringside last year, and that was mostly because Dolph went overboard on taking it and nearly twisted his own head off. I can’t believe MVP still uses that thing. It was usually the go-to move for rookies in the first half of the decade, and it would normally gets replaced the minute they thought of something, anything, more viable than the fucking OVERDRIVE.
But yeah, Orton used to botch that mother all the time.
You never saw his match vs RVD on Raw and the blown spots he had in that match?
And that’s just to name one.
I liked the Bret segment all the way up until that stupid line about “I’m not going to go into a long explanation about how John Cena knows an expert in stunt filming…”
Just complete retardation. A plot hole so big you could drive a Mack truck through it. I’m not expecting the Sopranos or The Wire or anything, but that’s really what these idiots think they’re writing. Unbelievable.
Why is it that bad of a plothole? Cena was the only member of the roster involved that I remember, so obviously he was in on it. Cena had it in for McMahon, too. Cena, as you may be aware, has been in movies and in the current storyline is Hart’s ally/good friend.
I don’t get what’s so bad about this. The line probably wasn’t necessary since it was obvious what had happened, but it did serve the function of removing any doubt that Cena had also been swerved, not just Vince. It would have been stupid for Bret to be fooling Cena also.
Help me out here, I’m just not getting what the problem was with that line.
I was fine with it. If he hadn’t said anything, that might’ve made people start thinking, which would’ve revealed all the plot holes. On the other hand, if he went into too much of an explanation, it would’ve been completely lame. But when I heard the line about Cena and stuntmen, I just kind of laughed at the goofiness of it and thought to myself “oh okay, so that’s what happened” without giving it another thought.
I’m with you on this one, it was terrible. Right up there with classics like Hulk plowing a semi into the Rock and him recovering without a scratch.
How was it ANYTHING like that?
In this one, Bret revealed that he and Cena staged the whole thing to screw Vince . That’s MILLIONS of times more plausible than Rock getting plowed by the semi and being fine.
This storyline makes perfect sense and I love it. And Bret’s go-home line on it was perfect: Vince screwed Vince. He played Vince’s arrogance against himself and set him up, just like Vince once did to Bret.
How is this in any way like the Rock/Hogan semi incident? If anything, it’s the exact opposite. I’m loving the Bret/Vince storyline way more than I thought I would.
At least the E’ didn’t spell it out for the audience, like they did back in 05′ where Hunter specified “his plan for Batista” with Flair. And Batista gets made to look like an idiot because he apparently couldn’t figure it out on his own like the audience did. That was what started the downfall in the Batista/HHH storyline.
Here Bret at least just gave the basics so the audience could put 2 & 2 together.
Is it so hard to believe that Cena made friends with some people on the movie sets he was on?
Raw just felt flat last night because they didn’t do anything exciting with Austin. I understand when they keep Criss Angel or whatever limited to a couple skits and out of the way. But it’s STONE COLD, he should’ve been raising hell, PG rating or not. I mean, was Santino not around to get stunnered?
Batista definitely bladed and it was sweet. They need to have Batista win at WrestleMania, keep the belt and keep that feud going.
My WTF moment of the night was Randy Orton saying he respected Triple H. I know we’re supposed to have no memories as wrestling fans…but it was less than a year ago that Triple H attacked Orton and his “wife” in the dude’s home. It’s part of the WWE’s problem because you can’t expect people to get invested in something and then have to forget it in a few months…why get invested?
I believe the line was that Orton still didn’t like HHH, and even downright hated him, but respected him nonetheless. Kinda like how you have to respect the quarterback of your favorite team’s rival, like a Browns fan respecting Roethlisberger, or a Giants fan respecting Tony Romo. I thought it made sense, even though the only reason he said it is because he was reading from the tweener-face playbook.
It would’ve been nice for Austin to stun someone just for the hell of it, but on the other hand, do we need him a)taking time for a meaningless stunner on someone like Santino for no other reason when it was otherwise a very tightly-scripted, well-executed buildup to Wrestlemania, or b)putting his imprint all over a storyline that doesn’t need it?
As far as the Orton stuff…that’s the oldest line in wrestling. “I don’t like you, but dammit, I respect you.” Now, if he was to come out and save Triple H from a beatdown and be his best buddy out of nowhere, that would be retarded. But he didn’t. He said he didn’t like him and badly wanted to beat him. The two have a history together that dates back years and hating someone while at least respecting their in-ring ability- he didn’t say he respected his character- is entirely believable.
I think giving Batista a long run with the belt as the top heel would be great. But then I thought the same thing about Punk last year.
From a storyline perspective though, I think Cena wins. He hasn’t got anything in this feud – Batista’s got the better of him at every turn (plus he won in their previous encounter). Of course, Cena could take a beating every week of the year and he’d still be over. But I’d be surprised if he doesn’t have a happy ending at WM.
Edge, on the other hand, is being pushed so strong that I’m wondering if they’re going to swerve everyone with a Jericho win (maybe delaying Edge’s win until Backlash or whatever it’s called).
I enjoyed last night’s show for the most part, decent matches, feuds got advanced and I thought Vince/Bret got right back on track. Good stuff. I even thought Sheamus’ promo was half-decent.
Jericho did get in a pretty nice beatdown on Smackdown last week. So there’s still plenty of time for him to build his heat going into Mania, or at least even it out so it’s not obvious who’s winning.
I enjoyed the show last night, too. They’re on a helluva roll leading up to Wrestlemania. The booking for each match has been great and I honestly don’t have a strong feeling for who’s going to win any of them. Cena/Batista seems the most clearly booked in one direction- the heroic Cena prevailing over the evil monster- but if they’re closing the show with Shawn beating Undertaker then they don’t need Cena to win for the feel-good moment.
(Yes, I know Cena getting his ass kicked is a feel-good moment for a lot of fans.)
Maybe it’s just the mark in me talking, but I would’ve liked to have seen Austin give McMahon the stunner after Bret fooled him, and for the show to end with Austin and Bret sharing a beer to end the show.
I was expecting an Austin-Hart beer bash while at the same time hoping they’d play off their old rivalry, yet they did neither.
Kinda disappointing.
Normally, I’d agree that the whole “I respect him” thing was a little too ‘wrestling logic-y,’ but right after that Orton clarified it with something like “I take HHH seriously.” That’s fine to me and fits his character a lot better.
Was I the only one thinking that Austin looked to be in incredible shape? He looked great and can probably still go. His appearance was a much welcome breath of fresh air and made for a good Raw.
Impact? A little better; but I stick by my wrestling rule #25, any show in 2010 with Jimmy Hart and the Nasty Boyz gets an automatic FAIL.
Yeah, Austin looked terrific.
He looked good, but I doubt he can still good. Looks have nothing to do with a broken neck.
Yeah, but considering he looked really out of shape the last time he was on it’s a welcome sight.
Can still *GO*, that is.
Yeah, he looks in great shape compared to a few years ago.
Well I saw both shows thanks to tivo and didn’t really enjoy either one that much, but I will still totally watch wrestlemania.
But wow I just saw the ratings on 411, and man I understand that TNA is in this for the long haul and all, but it can’t be that good to lose 30% of your audience on week. Yikes!
http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/132904/Quick-WWE-Raw-and-TNA-Impact-Ratings.htm
TNA was taped. Huge disadvantage having everybody know in advance that The Nasty Boyz and 3D were going to be on.
Good point, but on that same vein everyone also knew that the main event was going to be AJ vs. Hardy, and that seems like it would be one of their money matches. In fact that was the reason I watched the show. I really hope the TNA rating does go back up next week when they are on live, and that Spike doesn’t get too panicky because Mondays are much better with two wrestling shows.
You’re making the Russo mistake of assuming TNA’s audience actually follows this stuff obsessively online. Even with their smaller audience, I’d probably guess that a quarter, at best, were aware of the taping results.
There never seemed to be a correlation between taping results being good or bad and TNA viewership before this week, for that matter.
How is that a DISadvantage??? I trust its a typo.
This was one of the rare RAWs that I’ve watched recently, and the show is STILL full of predictable non-finishes and lame cop-out finishes to every single one of their advertised big matches. Do other people really just accept that as the norm now and not get annoyed?
How about, if you want to build an angle, just do a different match that you can allow a clean ending to (i.e. Batista vs. Kofi, except preferably without it being such a squash), or make 6-man tag matches that combine the participants of different angles… Don’t insult my intelligence and keep advertising matches that everyone knows 97 times out of 100 aren’t going to have a clean finish.
It was otherwise a good show which I would probably watch every week if it wasn’t for that hugely glaring weakness.
TNA wasting AJ vs Jeff just to try and pop a rating stinks of WCW. This match could of been built up for months and delivered either on PPV or a special episode of Impact, instead of letting a rivalry brew they just through it out there. Silly silly short sighted booking. Watched some of the highlights of Impact and most of it fell flat, just sick of seeing the same over the hill guys dominating the storylines.
Raw was good this week, Batista is really finding his groove but unfortunately for him he is losing at Wrestlemania and for some reason I don’t see his awesome heel turn lasting for much longer with Taker, HBK disappearing soon and HHH likely turning. Dude is really making Cena look like a chumpstain.
Though the Bret angle was obvious I thought it played off well and made me more excited for their mania match, I sense the sharpshooter getting a mega pop.
Still firmly believe Jericho is winning, Edge keeps dominating to easily for my liking.
Can’t wait for mania, crunch time for TNA will be post WM when WWE usually get very lazy with their booking.
“Still firmly believe Jericho is winning, Edge keeps dominating to easily for my liking.”
That’s exactly how I felt about Jericho at WM 18.
I don’t want to sound too negative because overall I’m glad that Bret came back and that’s the main reason I’ve been watching recently. That said, here is what I took from Raw:
- I can understand some of the criticism of the Bret/Vince angle. The fake car accident is definitely kind of lame but like many I’m willing to overlook it because of the way they pulled off the reveal with the cast on the table. They could have done a better job of Vince repeatedly turning down a match against a healthy Bret and then eagerly accepting a match as soon as Bret was injured. Even so, what they did last night sure beats Bret doing a long melodramatic staredown and repeatedly pointing at the Wrestlemania banner.
- The people ripping on Bret for supposedly not knowing how to sell a leg injury are funny. He’s one of the best sellers ever, if not the best. Watch the 94 Rumble or WM 10 or the first In Your House or KOTR 93, etc. if you want to see him sustain an injury and then continue to sell it. He knows what he’s doing. You can question the logic in the booking of having him sell the leg the way he did, but there is zero evidence to suggest that Bret Hart has ever been bad at selling injuries, especially a leg injury.
- I know they have a common enemy in Vince but it was kind of weird to see Bret and Austin acting all buddy-buddy. I know it was just a way to have Austin interact with everyone without getting physical, but it seems to me that Austin’s character wouldn’t automatically be so chummy with Bret, Shawn, Jericho, etc.
- The visuals of Batista taunting Cena and Edge taunting Jericho as Cena and Jericho were laid out were nearly identical. You’d think with all those writers they’d be able to come up with more than one way to move along a storyline. Nope. Just more staring. As a wrestling fan I don’t understand the love for this Cena/Batista story. Batista is mad because “they” made Cena “the face of the company?” This is a good storyline? Nope, just more place-in-history/legacy crap with guys arguing about their status.
- I hope none of you were playing a drinking game that involved Michael Cole saying the words “Wrestlemania rewind match.” This new constantly-repeat-everyone’s-resume-and-legacy style is pretty much unwatchable.
- Despite being just another feud about legacies and place in history, the Michaels/Undertaker feud started off interesting but it’s devolved into just another angle at this point, with Shawn worried about “sending a message” to Taker by beating up Jericho. I’m not getting all the over-the-top praise for Shawn’s acting over the past few months. He’s just doing the generic “intense” shtick that comes with 95% of the current storylines. He’s got a career filled with great work but this is far from the epic performance that many are making it out to be. I’m sure it’ll be a great match and the stipulation leaves the result in doubt but the story really hasn’t been developed much since the match was made.
- With one week left to go and Bret getting the upper hand last night, what are the chances that Vince retaliates by somehow injuring Bret’s leg for “real?”
I’ll say one thing about WWE – if I never hear a wrestler talk about how much he ‘respects’ his opponent, I’ll be a happy fan. It was silly for Orton to do it and it was annoying to hear Sheamus talk about how much he used to like HHH (this was the part of his promo I didn’t like). We’ve seen it too many times in the past 10 years, a young wrestler going up against Undertaker, HBK, HHH, recently Cena etc. and saying how they respect them, listing their accomplishments etc.
Somehow, I don’t think Austin would have got over in 1996/97 if he had talked about how great Bret was during their feud, instead of saying he was a cry baby and that if you put the letter ’s’ in front of Hitman, you had his opinion about Bret Hart.
Problem is, when someone takes the Austin/Rock approach, people bitch that they’re “burying their opponents on the mic.” Remember the shit people gave HHH for saying Cena can’t wrestle?
True. but rock and austin did not get that. only HHH. The hate for him lives.
I have no problem with anybody doing it, whether it’s Rocky or HHH. Bottom line, wrestling was BUILT on antagonism, not “respect.” With the exception of the occasional face-face showdown, feuds should be built on a mutual dislike at worst and a mutual burning hatred most of the time.
I miss the days of the Rock, Austin, Foley, HHH, etc. verbally destroying their opponents. May the best man (on the mic) win. It’s fair game. Imagine if Austin and Rock had spent their feud talking about how tough each other were, rather than threatening to beat down/kill one another.
The difference is when HHH does that shit, he usually buries opponent completely in and out of the ring(RVD anyone?). Maybe if he weren’t banging the bosses daughter, and/or didn’t bury stars on a consistent basis, he wouldn’t have that cloud hovering over him.
But the minute any other star would DARE do that to Hunter that’s NOT a main eventer, he suddenly crossed the line.
That’s why Hunter gets that hatred from the IWC, he can dish it out, but he can’t take it.
Beast spot on… Remember when Miz ripped into Cena’s silly kiddie pandering act for a few weeks… I found myself screaming “Hell Yeah” and he got polar hear from the crowd.
If Sheamus came out there and ripped into HHH for being a limelight hogger and overrated and that he’s going to tear him apart and expose him for the has been he is I’d of again screamed “Hell Yeah”… the ‘respect what you’ve done/how many world titles you got’ thing is wayyy overdone, it’s ok when you use it occasionally… but when every feud involves past achievements and legacies it gets tired and repetitive quickly.
Do you mean he got ‘polar heat’? Wouldn’t that be bad? But if someone gave Miz a polar bear, that would have been cool.
I agree with you that the respectful rookie thing goes overboard, particularly when WWE has done such a poor job of cycling out the main eventers of yesteryear. Those guys have had their reputations cemented and then some. Listing their accomplishments only puts THEM over.
This is all true but that’s only the tip of the iceburg. What’s really awful is this constant listing of everyone’s resumes and status and legacies. And the constant generic language they keep repeating is brutal. It’s striking to see all these old guys who used to shoot from the hip like Bret and Austin come back and have to shoehorn the same scripted language (WWE universe, anyone?) into everything they say.
The constant stupid language and reminders of what we’re watching are so distracting. How many times did Cole say the phrase “Wrestlemania rewind match?” We get it. Michaels took a huge bump over the top to the floor last night and Cole didn’t even acknowledge it because he was busy reminding us we were watching a Wrestlemania rewind match.
Bret Hart used to give plenty of babyface promos about respecting his opponents but the difference now is that we’re beaten over the head with generic language.
Subtlety was one of my favorite things about wrestling. There was kind of an implicit understanding of things that you’d pick up on if you paid attention. Gorilla Monsoon could mention that logically the winner of this tag team match was sure to become a top contender for the Titles. Bobby Heenan could mention that he heard a rumor in the back. Little things could be mentioned with one sentence from the commentator and have an impact. Now they just hammer every single thing into your brain.
Yeah, the announcing, and the constantly spelling everything out for the audience is one of the most hugely annoying things that I can’t get past. I’m ALWAYS thinking about past announcers, Gorilla Monsoon and Bobby, Ventura, whoever, and how much better it was then. It’s all completely dumbed down now.
At one point last night, I wish I remember when (maybe the contract signing introductions), Michael Cole said, “This is a very important moment,” and then proceeded to repeat all the obvious reasons why it was important. And it just sounded awful.
It was like if you were watching a movie, and suddenly a pop-up bubble showed up to explain the moment’s significance: “This is a very important moment. Vin Diesel is realizing that his friend is in trouble, and that he’s going to have to drive his car really fast in order to save him.” That’s what WWE is like much of the time.
I like the movie analogy. It’s so true. It’s truly cringe-inducing.
What’s sad is that as much as I dislike Cole, you can’t even blame him, much like you can’t really blame the workers themselves for their bland styles, bland scripted interviews and lame arguments about their own status.
For whatever reason, they’ve just committed to this completely homogonized product. The problem is not that the wrestlers or the announcers are terrible; it’s that they’re operating within a terrible system.
“the Michaels/Undertaker feud started off interesting but it’s devolved into just another angle at this point, with Shawn worried about “sending a message” to Taker by beating up Jericho.”
the fact that the outcome will change the status quo either way (assuming they don’t treat the retirement angle as a joke) I think contradicts your claim about this being “just another angle” IMO.
Not in terms of the outcome, in terms of the motivation and the story. Everything on the show is about status, legacy and place in history. So is this.
And I suppose the days of Katie Vick and Russo’s TNA bs is so much better?
So you want HBK/Taker to NOT be about that, when building it around THAT is the best way to go?
What are you wanting? For Undertaker to bust out his black magic bull shit, and bring Paul Bearer back with him?
This is the way they should be building it, we don’t need shit like Hogan ramming a semi in to the Rock’s ambulance.
Geez it’s a fixed sport where the E’ tries to convince us it’s real, what are you wanting?
Scott’s right, Russo has infected wrestling.
Yeah. Not really sure where all that comes from or what it has to do with what I said. I don’t have a big problem with the Michaels/Undertaker story, I just don’t think it’s as epic as people make it out to be.
The main thing I dislike is the way the product is treated across the board, where it’s now an homage to the past and we are constantly read a resume of each wrestler’s history, and there is talk of “Wrestlemania moments” and the only way anything is conveyed is by “intense” staredowns or repeated gesturing toward a Wrestlemania banner. That doesn’t mean I advocate Katie Vick, semi vs. ambulance, or Vince Russo.
And in total I have maybe seen a combined 10 minutes of TNA. Probably less. Again, not sure how I was endorsing any of the random stuff you brought up.
“The main thing I dislike is the way the product is treated across the board, where it’s now an homage to the past and we are constantly read a resume of each wrestler’s history, and there is talk of “Wrestlemania moments” and the only way anything is conveyed is by “intense” staredowns or repeated gesturing toward a Wrestlemania banner.”
I know you might find this hard to believe but they did shit like this during the attitude era as well.
Why do you assume I’m a big Attitude era fan when I’ve said nothing to indicate that? You’re acting like the current product and the Attitude era are the only two types of wrestling that have ever existed and you’re projecting your own assumptions onto me.
The Attitude era was never my favorite period of wrestling. So far you’ve got me pegged as a huge Attitude era fan, a fan of TNA’s booking, and an advocate of Russo, Katie Vick and vehicles in wrestling. 0 for 5.
And no, they didn’t do stuff like that nearly to the extent they do now. Everything changed drastically after the WCW sale and the focus on DVD’s, legends, 24/7, the Hall of Fame, etc. It’s night and day. If you’re incapable of recognizing the not-so-subtle differences in the new product, I don’t know what to tell you. If you do see the differences and still enjoy most of the stuff now, more power to you. I personally find it awful. It’s fine if you disagree. After all these posts, I still don’t see what your point is.
Well what era WAS your favorite then.
And yes I’m well aware of the differences in the product between now and then.
My issue with you is that you keep bitching about the way things are but never offer any sort of alternative of how you’d want to see it.
You just sound like someone whining for the sake of whining.
Re: meka
It’s funny that you say I’m whining for the sake of whining when your last two responses to me came off like someone arguing for the sake of arguing, going as far as to bring up things that were completely irrelevant to the discussion just so you could create an argument and pick a fight.
Just as you voiced your distaste for stuff like Katie Vick, Russo and vehicle use (three things we seem to agree on – and I suspect there is plenty more that we agree on), I was voicing my distaste for the presentation of the current product.
I was merely sharing my thoughts on Raw, much like everyone else. And the common theme that I keep coming back to when I watch these Raws (which I am interested in mainly because of Bret) is that it is difficult to look the other way on many of the things I’ve mentioned. Perhaps for those who never stopped watching on a regular basis, the difference is less jarring because those elements were introduced gradually, but for those who tune in sporadically the difference really does jump out and is actively distracting.
There is not much point of you asking me for an alternative of how I’d want to see it, which I’d think is fairly obvious anyway. It’s not that I would have made some big drastic change; I just would have preferred to see them NOT make the big drastic change that they did make. That’s the only alternative I’d be interested in. All I know is that for a very long time, wrestling operated without the elements I’ve mentioned. In my opinion, it is much better and far more enjoyable without those elements. I believe they have caused wrestling to devolve, not evolve.
You admit that you are aware of the differences in the product, as I would think everyone here would be. If you like those changes or don’t mind them, then great. I’m not out to change your mind. I was simply mentioning that they distract and detract from my viewing experience. There are others that feel the same way. I don’t know why that’s so offensive to you.
I thought RAW was really good. The build to WM has been the best in years. The only thing I’d be doing differently is that I think they should have announced the Orton/Legacy triple threat a week or so ago in order to build the tension b/w Dibiase and Rhodes. I’m sure it will play out in the match itself, with each guy wanting to be the one to pin Randy, but right now it’s basically a handicapped match (which we’ve already seen), since Legacy are united in taking our Orton.
And I was wondering about Kofi last night, too. He’s not even booked for WM!
And I also thought Austin was going to be announced as the ref for Vince/Bret, but it works even without it. Too bad Hebner is gone, though.
Based on things last night, I wouldn’t be surprised if the WM dark match is Simply Flawless (incl. Vicki)/Maryse vs. Beth/Gail/Eve/Kelly^2, which works pretty well in terms of storyline development, esp. for a dark match.
Gorgeous George in the HoF is interesting. Hopefully Stu will get a vid package before WM weekend, since his announcement was off the cuff to add to the Bret/Vince angle.
I’m soooo looking forward to WM for the matches themselves, and not just b/c it’s WM. Here’s hoping it doesn’t disappoint. Forget throw away matches like Boogey Man/Booker-Sharmell, or Kane/Khali…this year is what WM is all about.
Re: explaining away Bret’s shortcomings
I would say it even goes farther than that — of course this is just my opinion — but I think people are explaining away the whole angles shortcomings.
“This isn’t exciting to watch at all” …
“they are going with the slow build cause it’s smarter, it’s not supposed to be exciting”
The whole angle has been flat and pretty uninspired since day one if you ask me, and it’s never going to get off the ground. As a huge Bret mark, I find the whole thing really disappointing.
Luckily things aren’t so bad otherwise for the WWE.
TNA on the other hand — what are the Nasty Boys doing back on television? Where is Samoa Joe? Do we really need to see yet another match where Hall/Waltman are trying to not be banned from the Impact Zone / get contracts. Do they have any new ideas?
TNA can get away with showing big matches on free TV as Pay Per Views aren’t a huge income source for them … but only if they actually pop the cable ratings they are looking for, and they appear to be stagnant. Uh oh.
““This isn’t exciting to watch at all” …
“they are going with the slow build cause it’s smarter, it’s not supposed to be exciting””
The thing is, you can level that criticism to just about anything in the WWE or TNA. So its hardly fair to single out the bret-vince storyline for that.
“TNA on the other hand — what are the Nasty Boys doing back on television? Where is Samoa Joe?”
I don’t think he’s been on TV in a few weeks. TNA has really buried him.
The thing with Vince/Bret is that it’s such a foregone conclusion and the foundation for doing it in the first place is already so well established that it almost doesn’t matter how they get there. Regardless of how they built to it, the whole point was always just going to be “pay 50 bucks to see Bret put Vince in the sharpshooter.”
Which makes it even more egregious of them to try and pass it off as good television, they just have applied no creativity towards it, making it to be yet another “Vince vs disgruntled employee” match. It’s business as usual and they are nuts if they think I’m going to pay $50 to see a bunch of 12 year olds pop for a Sharpshooter.
It’s funny – this is the one case where “Vince vs. disgruntled (former) employee” actually should be enough to make for a compelling angle but it’s already been done so many times as part of regular angles that it’s meaningless now.
They should have tried to paint more layers with it by involving Michaels more (I guess this is what they attempted to do with Cena and Batista) but there are no layers anymore. It’s just A vs. B, C vs. D, etc. Paint by numbers.
0.8 is lower than I would have ever expected. I figured TNA could always count on at least a 1.0.
I’m not one that cares too much about ratings, but that’s just an ugly number.
You’d better believe it. The overrun was 4.3 for the Bret-Vince contract signing to 0.74 for Styles-Hardy. Just a massacre.
Totals for the night were 3.7 for WWE to 0.8 for TNA.
I agree with Meltzer that TNA could survive by going from 8-10 p.m., instead of two hours head-to-head. But if they don’t and if there aren’t massive changes in creative, I stand by my claim that TNA is dead by 2011.
Man, Austin = ratings…no doubt.
TNA is getting what they deserve. The show has progressively gotten worse since Hogan took over, it’s unbelievable. I already didn’t think it was that good; but for somehow, to get worse? The numbers show a progressive decrease in viewership since January 4th, including Thursdays. Now, RAW is pulling out the big guns and it’s really crippling TNA. Too bad, I was hoping TNA could really provide an alternative.
Somewhere, Jim Cornette is laughing.
Yes, because Jim Cornette-booked promotions have a much better track record than TNA. Oh, wait.
That’s a bit unfair. Cornette never tried to take SMW national and had no goals to take it national. The point flair was making is that he was right about TNA.
Was SMW profitable?
Sorry, I don’t worship at the altar of Jimmy C like most of the Internet folks do. I think his ideas are largely outdated.
I’m not defending TNA (too much), but it’s been more successful than SMW by ANY measure. How long was SMW even in operation? Plus TNA has actually turned a profit for the last two or three years. And has managed to hang onto most of its core talent. What they do with that talent is another story, but let’s not pretend Cornette is some genius expert about how to run a successful wrestling company.
I think you missed my point.
In defense of Cornette, he’s never really had the financial backing and total control of a promotion. That may have a lot to do with his personality and how contentious he is, but don’t act like the guy doesn’t know wtf he’s talking about.
Gun to your head:
Cornette or Russo?
Cornette or Bischoff?
Cornette or Hogan?
I’d be shocked if you didn’t take Cornette as your head booker in those 3 scenarios.
Now we turn the gun on your head and ask Cornette or Heyman? it probably won’t ever happen but wouldn’t it be interesting if Russo and Bischoff where turfed as bookers and replaced by Cornette and Heyman?
They’re two different things. Of course TNA has been more successful than SMW.
But if TNA wasn’t scooped up by Panda, who lost a lot of money for a long time, it would’ve gone under in two years.
Running a successful company and booking a successful company are not the same things.
This is what people were more or less predicting based off that one time Raw ran against Impact on Thursday and slaughtered it, though.
It just TNA three tries to hit this level.
Am I the only one really digging Batista right now? I swear this gimmick is perfect for the guy.
I’ve never been particularly into Batista outside of the Evolution split in 2005, but you’re right, he’s great at the moment!
So who wants to crash THIS get-together?
WWE sent out the following e-mail today.
WWE is inviting people who are attending WrestleMania Axxess on Friday, March 26th to participate in a group discussion.
This research will take place at WrestleMania Axxess and last for approximately 45 minutes. In order to participate, you must already be a ticket holder or plan on purchasing tickets to Friday’s WrestleMania Axxess session.
Participants in this study will be compensated with a free ticket to Sunday’s WrestleMania Axxess session. Additionally, following the discussion, participants will be offered the opportunity to skip the line at one of our autograph signing areas. If you are interested in participating in this study, please email research@wwecorp.com with the following information:
Full Name
Age
Street Address, City, State, Zip Code
Daytime Phone Number
Email Address
WrestleMania Axxess Session you are attending (Day/Time)
Please feel free to pass this email along to anyone else who you know is attending WrestleMania Axxess and might be interested in participating.
Thank you in advance for your time and consideration.
Moderator: “Okay kids, what’s your favorite part about Raw?”
Kids: “HORNSWAGGLE AND THE GUEST HOSTS!!!
Everyone else: “Fuck…”
After this focus group, I guess Hornswoggle’s going to have a new tag team partner pretty soon… Poochie!
I thought this was another good RAW, and, outside of the Jerry Springer episode, I think every episode has been good leading up to Mania (I didn’t like the Criss Angel appearances, but that RAW was fine outside of him. And bizarrely enough, I liked him most when he was the ring announcer for the Cena/McMahon match). I am one who hasn’t been crazy about the Vince/Bret feud. It’s not that I’m not interested in their match at Mania, I think it should be a fun, overbooked match with the likely ending of Bret giving Vince the sharpshooter (I really think Jim Neidhart is going to make an appearance to turn things in Bret’s favor at some point, which would be a great moment), but it was too much of the two of them doing promos, and while that’s Vince’s strong suit, Bret is a legend for what he did in the ring, and his physical limitations have caused him to work this feud solely on promos, which, unlike Vince, isn’t his best attribute as a wrestler.
However, I really liked the reveal of the cast on the table. I was expecting Austin (Who was great. I was shocked to not see any stunners at least, as someone already pointed out, on Santino, but he’s an absolute legend and looked great) to say he was going to be the guest ref at that point, so it was actually a slight surprise to see the cast on the table (although I and everyone else knew they were likely going to go with the injury being a setup all along). I also liked Bret’s simple “I’m not going to explain this, but Cena knows some stunt people” explanation. Someone earlier pointed out that, while this isn’t “The Sopranos” or “The Wire” they wanted more of an explanation, but I liked the fact that they kept it as simple as possible. This angle was all about getting Vince and Bret in the ring due to their history, it didn’t need to be overly complicated with how they got to that point, and Bret playing on Vince’s arrogance was the perfect way of getting there.
As has already been pointed out, Batista has been amazing during his recent heel turn. I was barely watching wrestling during the majority of Batista’s career, but, while he has a good look and a great entrance, I never liked the cocky face role he played. His heel turn is a much better use of his cocky persona, and I think this is the first time Cena has actually looked like an underdog since I’ve been watching WWE again. I also think it might be a good idea to have Batista win at Mania to keep this feud going, but since I think Jericho is winning at Mania, I see Cena winning on March 28th.
I really think Jericho should hold on to the title at Mania, not only because I’ve long been a Y2J mark (I like Edge as well), but I think his character is much better as champion, and I’m not sure if face Edge is going to be able to have a long run as champ. Have Jericho win by some nefarious means at Mania, then he can feud with Edge for a few more months and it could lead to a Jericho/Christian feud if Christian ends up winning MITB, which I expect he will (Although they could go with a Chritstian/Edge feud as well if Edge were to win).
While it’s one of the lesser matches at Mania, Sheamus, who I hated as champ, is pretty over as a heel at this point. I think it would be in WWE’s best interest to have him win clean at Mania, but we’ll see how that goes.
Finally, I think it also shows how over Orton is as a face that he was still getting decent fan support in his match against HHH even though Hunter got a HUGE pop from the crowd during his entrance.
Also, when it comes to TNA, I really think they should have gone with the 8-10 timeslot instead of going head-to-head with RAW from 9-11. I would have definitely watched TNA from 8-9 to see what kind of talent they have there, and, while I likely would have watched all of RAW, would have at least tried to check out what TNA was doing from 9-10, and maybe would have watched their main event if it was against a weaker RAW segment. However, every time I flipped over during commercials it was either guys I did not know or someone like Hogan/Flair/Hall/Nash, guys I have liked for years, but not guys who I’m going to watch over RAW at this point.
I have no real complaints about how they’re building up to Wrestlemania and think the card’s going to be spectacular, but one minor little quibble: why are they using Audioslave’s “Be Yourself” as the theme song? Every time I hear it, I think of the Diva Search and Ashley Massaro using it as her entrance music and that’s not what I want to associate with Wrestlemania!
Oh, thanks for reminding me of the Diva Search! Just what i needed… not! It’s not really the build that’s got me into WM this year, with these matches and the WrestleMania name behind it, you could announce this at a press conference a month before the show, not do any TV until the show and it’d still sell. Gonna be one hell of a show.