Thanks for the passionate discussion. I always know I can get some honest opinions from you guys.
In the end I’m going to keep it like I had the list the first time (which is in the original post when I asked the question) and that includes the triple threat match from WM XX along with Angle/Guerrero.
Now from time to time I’m going to add a bonus match. They won’t always be predictable or what you’d expect. I’m going to look at the match list and if something sticks out to me, I’ll do a review on it. If nothing does I won’t. Maybe I’ll do Rock-Hogan (I probably will), but I might do something else on that card instead. Until then here’s the Wrestlemania 2 Main Event.
WWF Championship, Steel Cage Match: Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bundy
From the Los Angeles Memorial Sports Area on April 7, 1986
Basic storyline fodder here as Hogan needed a major obstacle to overcome. Pulling a watch able match out of Bundy is certainly worthy of that title. Bundy “injured” Hogan’s ribs during a match against The Magnificent Muraco on Saturday Night’s Main Event and he sold the injury for much of the promotion and the actual match. Our announce team is Lord Alfred Hayes, Jesse the Body and Elvira. Good luck Body.
Slug fest to start and Hogan wins it. He gives Bundy the big boot (already) and uses Bundy’s own wrestling strap to choke him out. Hogan with a corner clothesline and he lays in the boots, chops and rights. Axe Bomber knocks Bundy silly but he blocks the attempt to the cage. Bundy goes to the ribs and takes control. Body slam and Bundy steps right on Hogan’s face. Ouch. He goes for the door but that ain’t happening. Bundy rams Hogan’s back into the cage but he can’t escape again. Geez Bundy, quit being a King Kong Pussy and fight. He finally rips Hogan’s protective tape off and uses it to choke him. He actually ties Hogan’s hand to the rope and goes for the door. Pretty smart move there, but Hogan is now rightfully pissed. A corner elbow and its time for Bundy to meet the cage, he actually sold it really well. Hogan, on the other hand, isn’t trying to get out so he hammers on Bundy and opens up a cut in the process. Hogan with the main event back rake and Bundy takes three more trips to the cage. Oddly Elvira is selling the violence better than Hayes or Ventura (“Somebody stop this thing!!”) Hogan chokes Bundy out on the top rope. He goes for the slam but Bundy falls back. Now groggy, Bundy goes for the door but Hogan grabs the tape and chokes his fat ass back to the center of the ring. Bundy goes to the eyes. Avalanche and the big fat splash could be enough for Bundy to leave. But our hero isn’t having it and brings Bundy back in. Bundy goes to the eyes. Another Avalanche but Hogan no sells. Reversal to the corner and a powerslam by Hogan (!!), was that an accident? Hogan drops the big leg and starts climbing, Bundy comes after our fearless leader but Hogan kicks him off and completes the climb to send the crowd home happy. And after the match he beats up Heenan too.
(Hogan def. Bundy, escaped cage, **) The cage really helped cover for many of the natural limitations of the competitors in this match. I really don’t think anyone took Bundy seriously despite having Hogan sell the injury for three months. So Hogan getting the revenge and kicking Bundy’s ass pretty good was the right call.
Related Posts:
- Summerslam Main Events (Summerslam 1990)
- Wrestlemania Main Events: Wrestlemania VI
- Wrestlemania Main Events: Wrestlemania
- Wrestlemania Main Events: Wrestlemania V
- Wrestlemania Main Events: Wrestlemania III
Tags: Hulk Hogan, Wrestlemania, WWF
I’m a little disappointed that you went with the triple threat at WMXX. Last thing we need is more publicity for a child killer. But then, I don’t have to read that entry, do I? Se La Vie
I’m sorry. I really am. I’ve stated my reasons for having reservations and that hasn’t changed. But you don’t have to read that entry and frankly I probably won’t have much joy in watching the match or writing the review.
I will say there won’t be any snarky jokes or backhanded comments in the review. It’s going to be very straightforward, blow by blow.
I’m glad you are including it. It is time we separated Benoit the person from the worker and enjoyed things from a ‘wrestling’ perspective. I say this as a wrestling fan because he was one of the best in-ring performers of all time and his work can still be appreciated despite what he was like in real life.
Okay, this may sound cold-hearted but as wrestling fans we all need to forget what Benoit did to his family and enjoy what he put out in the ring. It is hard to put it all to one side and enjoy the man’s in ring work, I’ll be the first to admit that it took me 2 1/2 years to do so, I tried to watch a match about 2 years ago and remember my heart sinking during the entrance music and having to turn it off. Snarky comments and things do not help, we all know what he did was the worst thing anyone could ever do. Barbarash said it right about separating the man from the worker. We as wrestling were crushed, heartbroken and angry about what happened, but his matches live on and we need to enjoy them for what they are.
“Okay, this may sound cold-hearted but as wrestling fans we all need to forget what Benoit did to his family and enjoy what he put out in the ring.”
Wow. I really wish I never meet you in real life.
For me, the idea of being unable to watch a Chris Benoit match because of the murders is like being unable to watch “The Naked Gun” because OJ’s in it. I’m not squeamish about these sorts of things. If I were related to one of his victims, I’d probably feel differently, but I wasn’t, so I don’t.
As far as Princess goes: if you don’t want to review his match, then don’t. There’s another title match at Wrestlemania XX (Angle/Guererro), and the way the crowd reacts to the Goldberg/Lesnar match is bizarre enough to merit a review as well.
You know what, I’ve changed my mind. Tprincess, don’t bother reviewing the Benoit match. It’s not worth the discussion overwhelming the very nice project you undertook. We’ve got those who want to show just how angry they are (not sure why I’m supposed to be impressed), we’ve got those who respectfully feel uncomfortable in watching and post as such, we’ve got those who think we should seperate the wrestler from the incident, and we’ve got me (and apparently no one else) who sees it as an sad, sorrofwful incident that that shouldn’t cause anyone who didnt’ know the family to be angry, but instead should feel sorry for all 3 people involved (and other family) because Benoit was a truly mentally ill man.
But in the end, this discussion is overwhelming the project. Just review Hogan/Rock, skip the three way and then I can take that time to trash Hogan instead.
“and we’ve got me (and apparently no one else) who sees it as an sad, sorrofwful incident that that shouldn’t cause anyone who didnt’ know the family to be angry”
I agree with you here. A horrible, horrible thing happened but it didn’t and doesn’t really affect my life in any meaningful way.
Nope, I’m with you Dukakis.
I feel the same.
It’s a very sad story that affects me not at all.
I feel sorry for the whole lot of them. Anger is not a suitable emotion for something that I’m completely removed from.
Yeesh, I’m really surprised at how polarized this topic still is. Personally, I’m okay watching Benoit matches but I totally understand why someone wouldn’t be. (I actually find the video packages leading into the matches to be creepier, by a wide margin).
I certainly don’t think someone should be compelled to watch them, nor should they be attacked if they choose to. We already know we’re going to hell for it. MRob told us many times.
Regardless of the Benoit situation, WMX7 is the best WM main event I’ve ever seen. The WMXX main event is the best of the “one guy’s always lying down away from the action for a 3-5 minute stretch” style of Triple Threats, but both of the TNA Joe/Styles/Daniels matches trump it, in in-ring action if not overall importance. The level of constant interaction between all three guys and building upon each other’s moves is just so much better. And I hate TNA.
And Princess, thanks again for the reviews, sorry the comment section’s turned into this.
I hate what Chris Benoit became just as much as anyone and I certainly have made it clear.
To deny that the main event of Wrestlemania XX is the best main event ever is nuts. It truly was the best match ever to main event the big show.
And honestly I feel the 2004 Rumble match was the best ever. Sad but true. As much as I wish there was a hell for him to be in right now and as disgusting as I find it for people to say “start showing his matches again and put him in the hall of fame, it’s not like he killed two little kids. Just one and his wife!” I have to say that nothing has topped Wrestlemania XX’s main event and nothing has topped the 2004 Royal Rumble. I’m not saying it was worth the body count. Then again I actually like Twilight Zone: The Movie, where Vic Morrow and two children were killed filming it, so I guess I can hate the man while saying that the match was the best.
I’m with you there Charlie, he should never be celebrated, but we can’t deny how good he was
“To deny that the main event of Wrestlemania XX is the best main event ever is nuts. It truly was the best match ever to main event the big show.”
Wrestlemania X-7 had a better main event. And what kind of human being are you, to weigh a “main event” against the life of his child and wife?
Who’s weighing?
Just to be clear, assuming the world was magical and full of wonder and I could push a button that destroys the entire body of Chris Benoit’s work in exchange for his wife and son being alive, I wouldn’t hesitate twice.
What’s done is done. He’s dead, and he killed his wife and son on the way out. Nothing is going to undo that. And unlike some, I subscribe to the ‘he was likely always a rotten human being who just kept his vileness really close to his chest’ theory. I agree with the WWE’s choice to remove him from the record and pretend like he didn’t exist when it comes to replaying old footage. Don’t blame them, blame the killer.
But he does have a body of work that exists and on rare occasions I end up reviewing a DVD that features him in it, I watch it and review it.
There’s no denying two things.
1. I can’t watch a match of his without thinking back to the day this all happened, and the shock (and hopefully anger) felt by so many fans.
2. I can’t deny the man was a wrestling genius.
I’m actually proud of the fact that I can watch his matches objectively, because at one point I didn’t think I would be able to. I’ve been occasionally pinging at old Summerslams in preparation for a run of reviews this Summer and I hit his match with Randy Orton from ‘04.
Not only was it a good match, but he absolutely 100% carried the whole thing from start to finish with practically no help from Randy. And that’s really a cringe-worthy match if you subscribe to the ‘it was the concussions that pushed him over the edge’ bit that I don’t personally buy into. I’m sure it contributed somewhat, but I’m not going to absolve the man or even say that it was the main factor.
But TPrincess is a reviewer and historian and so am I for Inside Pulse and unfortunantly Chris Benoit was in the main event of the most hyped Wrestlemania of the last decade and if we ignore his work, no matter how horrific his crime was, we’re not doing our job.
Congrats Dan, you’re self-righteousness means you’re a better person than the ones you disagree with. Are you happy now?
if you don’t want to watch, I respect that. But shouting “childkiller” doesn’t add anything to the discussion. We get it, you are outraged, he’s the most evil person ever. Thank you for your input.
Cheers.
Ha, nothing cracks me up more than listening to wrestling fans debate Chris Benoit.
Have you ever seen two people try to have sex in a hammock? That’s pretty funny too.
Don’t you think it’s time to just let it go? I know, I know, it’s such a big ethical argument whether we can ever appreciate a murderer’s work, but I refuse to detach myself from something I once cherished and hold dear because an act of human violence got in the way of it (especially considering we loved the guy for participating in a semi-violent activity).
It’s unfortunate what happened, but you can’t forget that Chris Benoit–like any of us–can be capable of horrific acts that defy all logic and expectations. It does not change history in any way, but does shape opinion. That history and his contributions to the sport should not trump what he did at the end of his life, but they should at least be remembered even if joylessly.
What would Bundy’s ‘natural limitations’ have been in 1986? He moved quick, had a great look and made everything look painful. Granted, Hogan says that’s because everything he did *was* painful, but as a fan, I didn’t care then, and still don’t.
Bundy moved pretty slow in this match. Not Andre slow. But he was nowhere near the “athlete” he was in the earlier part of the decade.
I thought he sold the beating well though. But I was never a Bundy fan outside of him demanding a five count.
I agree it ain’t Bret/Owen in there, but I’m not sure Bundy had deteriorated that much in 1986. He moved pretty well in his SNME match with Hogan, which some time after this (I’m thinking of the match that ended with Andre returning to choke out Hogan).
January 1988, I believe.
Yes, the Bundy/Hulk match from January 88 SNME is the one where Andre chokes out Hulk after the match. The SNME right before that one is the one where Bundy wins by countout over Hulk. I was always a huge fan of Bundy as a kid, still am. Just did the recaps for those SNME’s at my site
http://nala310.wordpress.com/
Had to register just so I could talk about this event. I started watching wrestling back in late 1985, so this was the first Wrestlemania held after I became a fan. I was totally into the Bulldog-Dream Team feud, and naturally as an 8-year old kid I was a Hulkamaniac. I legit hated Bundy.
So did my older brother take me with him to see the Closed Circuit ppv? Of course not. So I had to wait 2 months for it come out on tape. Still, I thought the whole thing was totally cool. Now I’m a 32-year old jaded smark conditioned to hate WM2, but it’s nice to walk down memory lane.
To be fair….I’m pretty sure the WWF promoted the event as having 3 main events, one in each arena. In 2008, they played some of the syndicated programming leading up to WrestleMania 2 and the main selling point was THREE ARENAS!! THREE MAIN EVENTS!! Although, man, I would be pissed if I ended up in Long Island for that epic Mr. T/Piper boxing match.
Was it that much worse than the battle royal with the NFLers?
I kinda like this match actually… I LOVE Elvira and Jessie’s commentary. Overall, the event is more entertaining to watch than WrestleMania I for me.
So the WWF was in a little bit of trouble at this point, weren’t they? 1985 was a much better year for them, ticket sales were slow for WrestleMania 2 and business had generally been soft in 1986. They would turn it around in 1987 and reach their pinnacle in 1988, but this was probably their first big misfire between now and putting title on the Warrior in 1990.
I still don’t get how putting the belt on Warrior was a misfire?? Business in general was dying down by late 1989 for the WWF and I don’t think it would of made a difference if Hogan kept the belt or not… infact once he got it back in 1991 business dipped even further. This was wrestling losing it’s lasture interms of relevance rather than an individual performers fault.
My theory is that this is where Hogan, once being the smartest man in the biz, made the call. He was headlining houses and Warrior was headlining houses. He probably looked at the overall numbers and saw the business was on a downward trend for no other reason than these things are cyclical. He figured he could do the job to Warrior, let him take the blame for the downward cycle.
Whoever held the belt during that period was going to be a “failure”
Hogan probably did do that. He certainly did it several times later in his career. NBA playoffs? Time for Hogan to take a break and then come back to claim the “higher ratings”.
I always got a nice chuckle out of Hogan “passing the torch” to the Warrior by hugging him and handing him the belt, then leaving in the little ring with the camera following him. As opposed to, you know, just walking away and letting the Warrior have his moment. I think he said himself one time that he knew that the Warrior would be a failure from day one when he noticed that everyone was watching him leave instead of watching the Warrior celebrate.
No wonder Shawn told Bret to get the fuck out of the ring at WMXII.
It’s the same damn thing Hulk did to Savage at Mania IV. You can clearly see Savage say to Hulk, please give me my moment, and Hulk ignores him and continues to pose. That was the day I stopped being a Hulk fan. Even as a 12 year old I could see how much of an ass Hulk was being.
I agree with this for the most part, but I don’t think you can ignore how distinct the drop-off in attendance was for non-Hogan main-events in 1990 and 1991. When Hogan was promoted as being a part of the show, they drew a bigger house most of the time. Wrestling was clearly on the way down, but putting the belt on the Ultimate Warrior hastened that.
or “seemed to” I should say, because who really knows other than Vince.
I went *** on it. Honestly it wasn’t THAT BAD a match and thus I think it deserves the passing grade under my system.
I really think it would have been better as a standard match, but whatever.
And of course, the original plan (MAYBE, there’s conflicting reports on what Wrestlemania the WWE wanted this for) was for Nikita Koloff to come in and main event against Hogan, but Koloff refused a huge money offer plus the main event of Wrestlemania payday because he didn’t want to do the J.O.B. Mind you, he likely would have made close to six figures just for that match, not even factoring in all the money he would have made in house shows and other stuff.
yeah, bad decision on his part since his career fizzled fairly quickly in JCP after Starcade 86. By 1988 he was yesterday’s news.
According to Koloff, he didn’t jump to the WWF because he didn’t trust McMahon and he thought he would be jobbed out repeatedly after losing to Hogan. Basically, he said he didn’t want to come in for one big payday and cast aside. Can’t blame Koloff for that…and his career fizzled out because his wife became gravely ill, can’t really blame his career arc on his decision to not come to the WWF.
Ultimately, he didn’t sign up because he didn’t want to lose fake wrestling matches. He would have easily for that year been in the top 1 percentile of paychecks for pro wrestlers.
It’s just plain stupid. It was a one year deal. In that year, he could do the JOB to Hulk Hogan, job out to a few midcarders, and go back to the NWA a much wealthier man.
It’s so stupid. It would be like someone refusing one of the highest salaries ever to play Jesus Christ in a movie because at the end of the movie you have to die. Well that’s just plain fucking stupid.
Sorry about his wife and everything, but the lesson learned is don’t turn down easy money for an easy job. It doesn’t get much easier then being Hogan cannon fodder #294.
That is an excellent four-paragraph review on one of the oddest situations of that time.
It was mind-bogglingly dumb. Especially knowing that Flair was never going to give up the title to him.
I wonder if wrestlers have representation (agents) or most of them work out their own deals with Vince (or whoever the owner, vp of talent is). Even though agents can be considered leeches, they work their ass for the actor, athlete, whatever to get them the best deal possible. I bring this up because a good agent would’ve easily convinved Nikita that not taking this deal would be completely stupid.
These days most have agents. Almost all the big stars use Barry Bloom.
The first guy to use an agent was Lex Luger (for those who say ’source’ just read a fucking wrestling book or something) and since he got the best deals, everyone started using them by the mid 90s. Not EVERYONE does, but almost every top WWE star and many midcarders do.
At the time Nikita turned down Vince McMahon, agents were rare in wrestling. Like “Lex Luger was the only one” rare.
It’s also worth noting that THEY DIDN’T EVEN USE CONTRACTS BACK THEN! Guys worked on handshake deals and the punishment for breaking them was getting backlisted. Wrestlers did have to sign off on booking assignments to work New York and those sign-offs were considered legally binding and they did win a few small-claims court cases against guys who walked about before their dates were filled. Those guys also ended up on Vince McMahon’s shit list.
In Nikita’s case, by his own admission Vince McMahon only wanted to bring him in to be another monster heel for Hogan to beat at Wrestlemania. So it wasn’t a question of if he would lose. He knew he would. Then after he lost to Hogan at Wrestlemania and then did a nation wide tour of jobbing to him, he would have done what the WWE traditionally did with it’s monsters: job him to a couple upper-midcarders to give them a rub of beating a guy who almost beat Hogan and then send him on his way.
Pardon my French, but Koloff was a goddamn fucking fool. Let’s say he enters the WWE in November of 1985. Let’s talk about his year.
-He squashes the shit out of jobbers.
-in January he injures Hogan
-He beats a few midcarders leading to Wrestlemania.
-He loses to Hogan at Wrestlemania 2, netting the second largest cut of the gate and buyrate. King Kong Bundy said by time he had left the company he had made over $150K just for that match alone. That might not sound like a lot but in 1986 that is a SHITLOAD of money for a single wrestling match.
-He goes around the country and Canada losing return matches to Hogan, again netting the second highest cut of the gate plus whatever his guarantee was. In 1986, Paul Orndorff pulled in a couple thousand every night he wrestled Hogan. Multiply that by close to 100 shows and you can get an idea of how much money he would have earned. He would have made money then anyone in the HISTORY of the industry to that point sans Hogan himself. Because that’s what Orndorff made. And Koloff was to be the guy who was in Orndorff’s shoes for basically all of 1986.
-Then Koloff goes to the midcard feud and jobs out at the next Wrestlemania (be it 3 or 4, even Koloff himself can’t keep it straight which one he was supposed to fight Hogan at, 2 or 3. He’s said both in various interviews. That said, he’s not lying about the WWE throwing themselves at him. They’ve talked openly about it). He’s still getting paid VERY good money to do this.
-And then his obligations to WWE are done. He can jump back to the NWA and likely make even more money then he did before because he’s got the rub of WWE superstardom on him, leading to more main events and likely a better shot at being the champion at some point. It’s not far-fetched to say that Koloff’s one year of job duty to Hogan could have made him a millionaire.
But no, he didn’t do it because he didn’t want to do the J.O.B. It’s simply unbelievable to me. Believe it or not, I actually have talked to a lot of guys from the Hogan era, especially Kamala and the Honky Tonk Man, and they all say the same thing: wrestling Hogan was easy and easy money. Everyone who feuded with him made money. Whether or not they saved it is another question.
It’s not like Koloff was the only one to do stuff like that. Without hyperbole, at least a dozen guys turned down job duty to Ric Flair at Starrcade ‘87. Nobody would accept a WORLD TITLE RUN in exchange for doing the job. It boggles the mind.
I think I’ve heard in different places that Koloff more misread the situation, that he thought he could get more money from McMahon in 87, but even more money in 88, etc. etc.
Koloff – Hogan back then, if the Magnum accident (and the Nikita face turn never happened) would have been insanely huge.
Not to mention that, according to Bret’s book, before he started making movies everyone liked Hogan. He dressed with them, hung out with everybody, never acted better than anyone else just b/c he was the champion & the rest of them were happy to keep him on top. Only after he started making movies did he start to let Egomania run wild. Plus the longer you’re on top the more paranoid you become.
On the Magnum vs. Nikita: My Side of the Story shoot – Nikita claims he never considered going because he felt Vince wouldn’t let me him Nikita Koloff. He even claimed Barry Darsow wanted Nikita to come with him, kick Bill Eddie to the curb and be Demolition and Koloff stayed in NWA so he could be the Russian Nightmare.
As a budding 12-year-old smark at the time, the presence of the cage was HUGE. I knew that nobody would be allowed to pin Hogan, but I was so convinced that Bundy would shoot on Hogan by walking out of the cage, then defect to the NWA as the “real” World Wrestling Federation champion. It was the sole reason that I begged my aunt to get the show (PPVs weren’t available in all places back then, even people who HAD cable didn’t always have the capability to order the shows) and begged my mother drive me there. Obviously I was pissed when Bundy decided to cooperate.
I’m not enthralled by this match and never have been, or the whole PPV for the matter, looking back on it, I’d probably go so far as to say it’s second worst WrestleMania (ahead of IX as you might expect), yup, liked WMXI more! I like the fact they tried things such as a different format etc, but it’s really a bore of a show for me, except for The Dream Team v British Bulldogs, awesome match AND OZZY, what more could you want!
This was probably the main event that made me aware of wrestling (I was five at the time). Following Bundy’s previous attack on Hogan, it was awesome watching Hulkamania’s revenge, brother!
Alas, then I grew up and these slow, plodding affairs don’t really hold much for me other than a dollop of nostalgia that fades quite quickly…
I guess sometimes I wish I could revert back to the days of innocent mark-dom. Wrestling seemed a whole lot more fun back in the day. Then again, when I ask my mark nephews who their favourite wrestlers are and they reply, “John Cena and Triple H because they know how to wrestle”, I realize that maybe it’s not so bad being a smark…
8 )
I was 4 when in 1986. I remember my local news showing highlights of Bundy attacking Hogan. I thought for sure Hogan was going down.
As for the Benoit thing: There is no right answer. If you want to watch his matches, great, and if not, great. People should NOT get slammed for feeling one way or the other.
I love this match, and it’s one of the defining “Wrestlemania images” for me.. Hogan vs. big monster dude, inside the old school steel cage. The Cena/Khali and Cena/Umaga feuds from a while back were some of my favorites, probably because they reminded me of these types of matches. They’re one of the only things that will make me revert back to being a mark.
I should rewatch this tape, WM2 was kind of a fun show now that I think about it.
Off topic but how come there’s no Oscar noms topic? I figured Scott would gush about District 9 getting a best picture nomination.
I know, I know. They added five movies to the nomination process. (I don’t see why they didn’t for other categories, or why limit the amount to begin with), but at the end of the day District 9 is nominated for best picture and that’s good enough to put a smile on my face.
Of course, they wouldn’t have the balls to nominate Star Trek for best picture and, without hyperbole, and with the knowledge that I’m NOT a Star Trek fan, that was honestly the best sci-fi/action movie I’ve ever seen. I can’t think of a single thing wrong with it. It was the best picture of the decade for me.
I’m also not at all a Star Trek fan, I watched the movie and loved it. Then I watched it again and for whatever reason, it just falls apart on the second viewing for me.
Inglorious Basterds was much, much better than anything else nominated. Particularly Up In The Air, which gets a lot of critics to say that it’s good when what they really mean is “it’s sort of topical”
I really like Up in the Air. Yes it’s topical, but it also has is a good character study and has some nice dry humor. A very enjoyable movie for adults. I got a kick out of watching the teenagers who were a couple rows back from my wife and I. They were talking loudly as the movie began and another customer yelled at them. They made smart remarks back, but by 10 minutes in they had left. Not sure what they thought they were seeing. They should have just saved money and rented Ocean’s 11 if they wanted their Clooney fix.
I enjoyed Star Trek; but best Sci Fi of the decade? I nominate Wall-E, Moon and District 9 as all much better films that will have more replayability. In fact, Star Trek 2 is still the best Star Trek movie ever made imho.
My two favorite directors (Coens and Tarantino) are suqaring off for Best Picture and Best Screenplay. I don’t expect either of them to get Best Picture but I hope one of them gets the Screenplay. I’m rooting for Tarantino in Best Director too but I doubt he’ll get it. At least Christoph Waltz should win the Supporting Actor. (Please note, I’m not saying that the Coens or Tarantino should win their categories; only that I’m rooting for them)
To this day I still hate the cage concept in the WWF/E. Even as a kid, growing up watching the cage matches around Florida, I considered the “escape the cage” gimmick lame. With that said, I really enjoyed this match for some reason. I was a pretty big Bundy mark back then and thought he was the coolest of the “monster heels” around that time.
Good review Princess.
On the Benoit front, review, don’t review, doesn’t matter to me. I sitll think that the WMXX main event is the best triple threat match ever and possibly the best WM main event ever. I just watched it recently and my opinion on the match hasn’t changed. Oh, and it goes without saying that I think Benoit did something beyond despicable.
Actually, I used to have the opposite view on cage matches. I thought that the NWA rules were stupid. “Why is a referee inside the cage? Why is he breaking up that hold? Isn’t this supposed to be the big payoff match where the two wrestlers settle their differences once and for all?” But after Vince Russo started booked cage matches, I think that they’ve all jumped the shark regardless of the rules.
On another note, I never really got the appeal of Hell in a Cell. Nothing has changed with the ring, and ramming someone’s head into the outside cage is basically the same as ramming their head into the guardrail. The only really excitement comes when they leave the cage and attempt to climb it, but leaving the cage defeats the whole point of having it in the first place!
I’ll make an exception for the Elimination Chamber though. They can do some cool stuff inside there.
I never had a problem with escaped the cage matches as a kid. They had drama to them, plus blood. As for the NWA, the only cage match that was ruined for me by the ref was Flair/Race. God Kiniski had to be the worst ref EVER. He totally upstaged the wrestlers. I just kept waiting for Race to just pop him one for real as he made Race look like a weak fool by physically breaking his holds repeatedly in the match. Such a great match possible, ruined by a ref. The best refs are never noticed. Well excpet for Tommy Young because you had to admire how he slid around that ring so fast to get in position to count.
You hit it on the head, I’m pretty sure joepet had to be referring to the Race-Flair Starrcade match. To this day, as awesome as I think that match is, I can’t go the full 5* like Scott because of Kiniski. It makes me angry just thinking about it.
Plus he does the counts WAY too slow. It really ruins the flow of a great match when the ref makes all the counts at a snails pace. Imagine having him ref for a Steamboat/Flair match.
I was actually thinking about any NWA cage match (the first time I saw the Flair/Race Starrcade match was only a couple of years ago…but yeah, that’s a perfect example of what I’m talking about) I thought that the WWE model was perfection: two men beat each other until one man is incapacitated, and the other one walks away in triumph. The Andre vs Studd cage match is a perfect example of what I’m talking about.
But sometime in the mid-to-late 80’s, WWF cage matches turned into matches to see who is the fastest climber. By the 90’s they had largely turned into crap like the Michaels vs Janetty cage match abomination. And then Russo came around and started throwing in crap like guys busting through the mat and throwing guys _through_ the cage, and they’ve mostly turned into a joke ever since.
I’m going to end up taking out my Hogan DVD set and do Hogan/Bundy and Hogan/Andre – maybe.
I always liked Hogan vs. Bundy, because in the 1985-86 matches, they do this neat spot where Hogan Irish Whips Bundy and power slams him. Some think it was an accident, but Hogan did the same spot to pin Bundy in a Boston Garden match in 1985 – and it was always a great visual of the strength of the 24-inch pychons.
Speaking of accidents, Hogan in a few of his 1985 squashes and a few matches upon his return in 2002 – he would do an inverted Leg Drop – beause he’d be facing the wrong way to drop his leg and he’d flip over and smash the leg vertically.
When it comes to Beniot, I keep hearing Hogan’s voice going – “If they listened to me, and put the title on me in June 2003 – none of this would have ever happened.”
That might be a s***head comment to say, but seriously I have a hard time stomaching Benoit, and I guess I need to use the idiotic Hogan shield. The good news is, I never liked Benoit in the first place – but respected the wrestling. It’s like watching OJ or Gig Young – I could seperate the wrestler/entertainer from the murdering b*stard – but outside of maybe watching Bret vs. Benoit match – I have no desire to watch the man.
If he was an actual hero and a wrestler I enjoyed like Hogan, Rock, or Austin – I don’t know. Benoit never meant anything to me.
Hogan’s not a murdered, but he surely is no “hero” and Austin? Skipping over his little “beating up the wife” situation are we? He’s hardly a “hero”. Dude, open your eyes, no athlete or wrestler or actor is any kind of hero. They are people, just like us…flawed. Some, more than others.
Dude, we worship people that remind us of ourselves. We idolized Babe Ruth for being who he was. We idolized Elvis Presley. We idolized Muhammed Ali. They all have their dark sides, and yeah Austin beating up Debra was wrong even if she was asking for it. If you marry a b**** then you got to expect this s*** and just walk away when she doesn’t like the fact you’re not making money anymore.
But these men are heroes. Human or not, they are what we want to be – rich and in control. Powerful and famous.
Huh? So The Rock reminds you of you? You point your eyebrow when you finish sentences?
Idolize who people are not what they are and since outside of seeing them on tv, you don’t know these people from a whole in the wall; I find it funny anyone who idolizes people in the public eye. This includes politicians and preachers as well…
Actually I do sometimes speak in third person.
Look I know what you’re saying, but when I drive my mustang, I pretend to be Bandit Darvile. We enjoy the flawed nature of Sheriff Buford T Justice. We want to dress as pirates and seek the black pearl. We wanted George Reeves to really be superman. We embrace the character they protray – not the actual person.
Wait….Hogan didn’t actually say that, did he?
I assume you’re joking, but there was like a 5 year period where I just ignored all ridiculous Hogan interview claims, so I easily could’ve missed that.
No, but he did say “Yeah that Nancy Sullivan was a devil worshiper, and I think that’s why she died because Benoit caught her doing it.” That one I didn’t make up.
I’ve heard all kinds of rumors about Nancy Benoit and satanism. Those were floating around LONG before what happened.
Kevin Sullivan apparently IS into some kind of church that has something to do with Satanism, though not as hardcore as it sounds. I’ve heard he preaches something about balance of god and satan and praying to both or some such nonsense.
As for Nancy, she was married Sullivan for ten years and it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that whatever church he went to, she went to also, and most say she stayed in that church even after they broke up. Chris Benoit himself had made it clear for years to his coworkers that he was an atheist.
I always wondered about the Bible thing myself. He leaves a bible by his wife’s head. Why? He’s an atheist, makes no damn sense. Then I get to thinking: is this penance from a mad man or is leaving a holy bible by the freshly murdered body of a Satanist one final ‘fuck you’ from him? Makes you wonder…
I never knew Beniot was an Atheist. Never heard that one before.
A lot of people noted it when they did talking heads shows in the weeks following the murders. That he rejected religion and didn’t believe in god at all.
So again, the whole bible thing is weird.
Charlie, I know you’ve said you disagree with this, but Benoit had serious brain trauma. If you’re interested I can get more in depth about the limited knowledge I have about TBI (I worked in a brain injury clinic for a while) through email. But there is a psychological syndrome where he might have thought he was protecting them from the evil of the world.
Off-topic but imagine how many wrestlers would be out of a job if this was the standard? From Meltzer’s update: –The retirement of Asashoryu, the sumo legend, earlier today in Japan, has been gigantic news over there. Asashoryu, whose older brothers are both pro wrestlers, has been sumo’s biggest star for about eight years now and considered top five of all-time in the sport. He allegedly punched somebody while being out on a night of drinking two weeks ago, and they have a very strict conduct code in that sport and even though he’s still No. 1, he was forced out.
Yea but you’re talking about a sport that’s been around hundreds of years and has very, very strict codes of conduct.
Wrestling’s codes of conduct are slightly different.
-You have to drink and tear shit up to prove you’re manly. Just read Ric Flair’s book and have fun counting the number of felonies committed while at the same time he notes ‘not that I’m proud of this, but…’ The one story in there that for some reason *really* disturbed me was about the time he was in a car with Harley Race and I think Wahoo McDaniel, and they were passing around a bottle of whiskey while speeding through the Rockies, and when the bottle would come back to Flair they would look in the rear view mirror to make sure Flair was actually drinking it. That’s just beyond vile to me for some reason. Even to this day guys measure their manhood by who can put away the most alcohol, because it’s how the business works. 10 to 1 says that’s the real reason the Undertaker got to bury CM Punk, because he’s not ‘one of the boys’.
-When it comes to ribs, anything goes, and it’s been that way since the business began. Freddie Blassie, whom I’m a big fan of, talks about feeling chocolate Ex-Lax to Haystacks Calhoon’s dog that was inside Haystacks’ brand new caddy, then tapping the windows so that it would spread the diarrhea it caused all over. That’s incredibly fucked up, I’m sorry. Hilarious, but fucked up and very very illegal. And then there’s the ones that cause bodily injury. A popular gag among wrestlers is replacing asthmatics’ inhalers with various other substances, such as lighter fluid. After doing my World Heavyweight Championship review in which I noted that Buddy Rogers did such a prank, a reader told me that he had read or heard three other wrestlers doing the same prank. I checked on it, and yep, it’s true. The Nasty Boys, Scott Hall, and Johnny Valiant all openly have bragged about pulling off the same trick. Mind you that if anyone outside of wrestling did that, they would almost certainly get charged with attempted manslaughter. Wrestlers are fucking degenerates.
So while I find things such as, oh, Randy Orton spitting gum at a teenage fan and calling him a racial slur to be absolutely pitiful, it’s not like this generation is out of control. The only difference is this generation seems to get caught by the non-starstruck police more. Ric Flair’s son gets pinched for having black tar heroin and everyone shits a brick because he’s disgraced his father’s name. Meanwhile Flair himself bragged about how much he would party to the point where a limo driver that was hauling the Horsemen around dropped dead of a heart attack after they got him in on the action.
I can watch wrestling, enjoy it, have favorites, cheer on the action, etc. But I don’t delude myself. Most of these guys are the absolute bottom of the barrel trailer trash alive. Just huge losers with million dollar bodies and egos to match but ultimately wretched human beings.
Did Johnny Valentine do the inhaler switch as well or was he one of the victims? I seem to remember reading about it in someone’s book but I forget which–I want to say Piper’s but maybe it was Blassie’s?
Blassie’s book talked about Inhaler gag was Valentine’s (my bad) and Buddy Rogers’ inhaler gag was mentioned by someone back when they inducted him into the Hall of Fame or something along those lines.
Either way, this is fucking degenerate behavior. When I was in middle school someone replaced an asthmatic kid’s inhaler juice (whatever it’s called) with water and he almost died when he went to use it. I can’t imagine what putting lighter fluid would do.
In Flair’s book he mentioned the lighter fluid thing too I think. I only remember because there was a story about how Valentine, after he got paralyzed in the plane crash, fell out of his chair and someone whipped out their dick and pissed on him as he laid there.
Fucked up shit the wrestling business.
Yeah, it’s beyond childlike behaviour, it’s criminal. Somd of the so called “ribs” attributed to JBL is enfuriating.
Another crazy ass story is told by Flair in his 2nd dvd set about hanging with Dusty and Dick when he got to go to Japan with them. Something along the lines of throwing all his clothes and shoes out the window in some hotel. Can’t remember exactly, but he took it “like a man” and then he was accepted. What is this bullshit? I’m all for a good prank, but this stuff is ridiculous and borderline (and sometimes not) illegal.
You might be right about Punk and his treatment during the Taker feud. He got buried. Luckily, his character is too strong and even though he got depushed way down the ladder (feuding with Ron Killings?), he’s on his way back.
the ribs are bad, but I’ve also always thought this “acceptance”shit is so stupid. Not just mentally abusing the poor guy like with Flair in Japan, but Hogan bragging about how they broke his leg and he showed how tough he was to come back and train after he healed. WTF? And there are numerous stories of this kind of crap. Just an odd, fucked up business. And yeah, they definately seem to be proud of it when they tell some story about hurting someone who had the audacity to want to learn and be in the business.
Since someone was questioning the Orlando Jordan story recently on the blog, have a gander at this newz item:
Partial Source: The Wrestling Observer Newsletter
TNA newcomer Orlando Jordan had a reputation for developing a big head and exhibiting some unusual behavior during the final months of his tenure in World Wrestling Entertainment four years ago. Jordan was fired from the company on May 26, 2006 because he had been traveling with someone not authorized by the company.
Before his untimely release from the organization, there were creative plans for Jordan to be repackaged with a bisexual gimmick in a storyline that would have involved former TNA performer Stephanie Finochio (a/k/a Trinity) and a friend of his with no prior background in the wrestling industry. While bisexuality is considered taboo in some wrestling circles, it was passed for Jordan since it is his lifestyle in the real world. It should be noted that the storyline was Jordan’s idea because creative team had no plans for him at the time.
Shortly after his departure from the organization, Jordan became embroiled in a bit of controversy online as he had uploaded photos of himself embracing two young males on his MySpace account. Furthermore, Jordan also uploaded nude photographs of himself to an account on the photo sharing website Photobucket.com. The images were discovered because Jordan also stored wrestling photos of himself on the account for his MySpace page.
That said, there were said to be no issues with Jordan backstage at the live Monday Night iMPACT! on Jan. 4.
For me, I can enjoy Benoit matches to this day b/c I believe in the end he was psychotic & not in his right mind. No that’s not just b/c I was a huge Benoit fan (I was), or b/c I’m callous enough to not care about the death of a woman & innocent child (I’m certainly not). Just from the evidence that’s been presented I feel Benoit was crazy from roids, exhaustion, concussions, and emotional rage and did a horrible thing, then killing himself in shame when he snapped back to reality. That’s enough for me to be able to enjoy the good moments of the past (something I’m DAMN sure no one would fault his family for trying to do) while still never forgetting nor condoning the tragedy that followed (I’m glad he offed himself & hope he’s paying for his crimes).
And that’s it. And if that makes me horrible to someone, then I’m horrible. But that’s just how I feel.
Personally, I think that anybody who thinks that Benoit shouldn’t be shown/reviewed, discussed is fine. but to then spend ages, and loads of space on here (or anywhere) discussing him kinda moots your point.