Sorry for the bit of an anticlimax to an otherwise entertaining tournament, but it’s a total rout for the Hart Foundation (on both the real and pretend ballots) so there’s no point in dragging things out and someone stuffing the ballot boxes.
Your winners of the first ever Lou Albano Memorial Tag Team tournament (and a shiny trophy to boot): Bret Hart and Jim Neidhart, The Hart Foundation!
This poll of course isn’t anywhere near scientific, but the Harts were as good of contenders as any. They are a rare breed from that era, not only surviving their initial heel push as a team and without the usual breakup angle to make Bret a star, but then coming back together during Bret’s initial singles push and actually becoming bigger stars again as babyfaces. They were both solid workers who could have a good match with nearly anyone, and a great one with many people, and best of all weren’t afraid to work heel when needed, even as babyfaces. Their legacy might have been aided by Bret going on to become one of the biggest stars in the world, but I think people would still remember them even without Bret’s later success.
So thanks to everyone who participated, and a singles tournament of some sort might be next as long as I can be convinced that it won’t be a long and contrived way to come down to the guy who goes Woo against his balding current employer. Because really, we’ve all read PWI and been down that road before, and I want to do something fresher than that.
I call shenanigans!
Vote totals when I closed it:
Answer Text Votes %
The Hart Foundation (Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart) 549 61%
Edge & Christian 347 39%
It had been trending the same the whole way and showing no signs of changing.
And frankly I’m shocked anyone would accuse pro wrestling of not being on the up-and-up.
here’s a start on the (requested) jobber tourney..
horowitz
lombardi
dusty wolfe
scotty mcghee
mario mancini
maggs
bob cook
zan panzer
rick hunter
mike sharpe
damien demento (i’m not a jobbah)
gill & hardy
mulkeys
aldo marino
rusty brooks
johnny k-9
marty garner
frankie williams
dennis stamp
bob bradley
steve gatorwolfe
mike jackson
just off the top of my head
i’m not counting actual roster members like sd jones, tiger chung lee, colin delaney… yes, horowitz held the Global TV title, and wrestled candido on payperview, but he’s still a jobber…
You could likely put some more recent ones in there, too, such as Gilberg and Funaki (when was the last time Funaki EVER won a match?). Possibly Scotty 2 Hottie, as well.
Sure, those ones had their time in the sun and had some wins, but so did Horowitz and Lombardi. And I think Iron Mike Sharpe (how DARE you not put “Iron” in there!) had a non-jobber career elsewhere at some time.
From the late 80’s, I nominate George South, Barry O, and Reno Riggins.
From the late 90’s, I nominate Jerry Flynn.
perhaps the criteria should be that if you have an action figure you are disqualified.. that may be when you cross that line from jobber, to low-card, forever-losing, non-jobber guy.. can’t for get Tom “rocky” Stone
What about the absentee ballots?!
This was loads of fun … though, frankly, I haven’t read much PWI, so I have no idea what you’re talking about. But with E/C making the finals and their easy dissemination, the whole thing reminds me of Super J ‘95. A guess if the tournament had been booked backwards, E/C wouldn’t have made it nearly as far …. but whats the fun in that?
It’s obvious the finals of a singles thing would come down to a combination of Flair/Bret/Angle/HBK/Benoit (pre-murders)…so why not do something along the lines of best wrestler to debut after 1990 or 2000 or something like that?
But then again, Angle would probably take the cake for that…so who knows. I still say do a singles one just for the fuck of it, and just to see what kind of cool matches would come about, because those last few rounds of the tag tournament would’ve been PRIME shows if they would’ve happened on the same card.
Or put Captain Woo up against Captain Brutha in the first round and eliminate the problem.
and you could make that person take on the winner of rock/austin in the 2nd round… you still got cena, angle, sting, savage, taker, benoit, hbk, etc… so it’s not like the other side of the bracketing is a weak link…
How about a stables tournament, where in each round the stable is represented by a different competitor.
For example – 2 sample matches from Round One…
-D-Generation X vs. The Hart Foundation
-The Four Horsemen vs. The Main Event Mafia
Then you could have…
-X-Pac vs. Brian Pillman
-Tully Blanchard vs. Samoa Joe
or something like that…once a man represents his team once, he can no longer represent them again. It would be kind of like a singles tournament, in the fact that you’d be voting for one-on-one matches, but it would also prevent from big names from winning it all.
Just an idea…
I vote for The Union!
PWI is a mark magazine and most of the Internet hates Hogan, so I doubt he would get far anyway. The most likely final would be either HBK/Flair/Austin/Rock.
I won’t include Bret because HBK has already beaten Bret on that sidebar poll, it won’t be Benoit because of the murders, it won’t be Angle, don’t get me wrong, I love the guy, but the Internet has soured on him in recent years.
Dark horse guys that would most likely get to the semis would be Jericho and Eddie.
It would be cool, if Scott separated best wrestler list by doing Best Wrestler of the 70s/80s/90s/00s and the winners of each category faced in the semis. It would also get rid of the Flair-Hogan problem as they’ll face of in the 80s brackets.
If that happened I suspect the semis would be Sammartino v Flair and HBK v Angle. In which case, we’d get a Flair landslide victory and a HBK would win his bracket, leaving HBK v Flair in the finals. which I think will be the most likely finals so long as it’s seeded right.
I’d be up for a singles tourney. I know the usual suspects would probably make up the last four but that doesn’t mean it’s not fun to do. And you never know, someone might surprise you like E&C. You could make it interesting by picking the matches randomly so some of the big guns face each other in the earlier rounds.
I’d like to see something a little different than just a main event singles tournament, because I agree that it would likely be predictable.
I say make a midcarder tournament. Not sure the rules exactly, whether it be based on having less than a certain number of “Big 2″ main event singles PPV matches or what, but I think it would be far more intriguing and suspenseful. Think about your cast of characters — Razor Ramon, Rikishi, Ahmed Johnson, X-Pac, Owen Hart, Buff Bagwell, Dean Malenko, Raven, Mr. Perfect, Jake Roberts, etc…
The best of the second-tier. Call it the Lord Alfred Hayes Memorial Tourney.
I think maybe the solution is not to change the format of the tournament, but introduce some element of randomness into it to keep it fresh.
Maybe do something like this: hold the vote, and then use the percentages to flip a bias coin, allowing for fluke upsets. In other words, if Flair/Hogan ends up 75/25 for Flair, Hogan still has a 25% chance to advance based on the coin flip.
Or, throw in some kind of random modifier/stipulation for each match to mix it up. So maybe Flair vs. Hogan gets saddled with something goofy like “Best Hardcore Wrestler” of the two, and that would ignite a little more debate than a straight one-on-one poll. You’d have to get creative in order to get enough stipulations, but you could reuse them. A cool one would be a “Gimmick Change” stip, where neither of the two wrestlers could use their most famous gimmick/persona. Lots of possibilities, probably a lot of weird and unlikely conversations.
How about the best wrestlers never to hold a world title? (begin debate about which titles qualify as world titles…NOW!)
I think if the promotion have a tv deal, it should be considered a real world title.
Damn, because then Tito Santana gets cut off because I’m pretty sure he was AWF champion.
Simple thing is to just say NWA pre-1994 (don’t get me wrong, I like Dan Severn as much as anyone, but… c’mon), AWA, WCW, WW(W)F/E, WWF/E World, IWGP, Triple Crown. I’m shaky on the AWA being part of that grouping, but that at least covers most of the significantly recognised world champions.
I could give or take whether there’s a recognised Mexican championship that’s ever been of a status level of the above, but that’s really all you’d need.
(no, TNA and ECW – either version – don’t count.)
Yeah, I think you should put Flair/Hogan in the first round, in the same bracket with Steamboat/Savage in the next round just to get rid of those not so fresh matchups quickly. Steamboat/Hogan would have been good though, I would have loved to see Ricky Steamboat sell the big boot by going over the top rope pulling himself back in.
Let me take that one further.
World champ toruney: If you have won a “world” title. Then put people who have faced off in a world title match in the first round.
flair/sting
Austin/Rock
Hogan/Savage
Benoit/Sid
etc
I think I get what you’re saying. You mean like:
Triple H/Vince McMahon
Diamond Dallas Page/David Arquette
Booker T/Vince Russo
Kane/Mark Henry
Oh yeah, I’m digging that!
Couple of thoughts-
1- Although I completely disagree with the Harts winning, it cool, because it was a huge amount of fun and that is what wrestling is supposed to be about right? Plus I will be back at the house show next week to see the Bulldogs get their revenge. (Although I would be even more excited for the Harts to join E/C and the Bulldogs for a sort of Super Foundation.)
2- One team who, I am guessing was never considered for the tournament, who I think might really have changed the face of it- Steve Austin and Shawn Michaels. Consider that although they did not team long, they won the tag titles, we involved in several memorable moments and one of Raw’s best matches ever- so they are at least s legitimate as Hogan and Savage. And, if you can deal with the fact they are in the tournament, is there any reasonable way you could vote against them? I mean other than saying, “they are not a real team” who in the entire field had A) More in ring talent B) drew more money or C) could cut a better promo? They are, in my opinion, two of the top 5 all around wrestlers of all time. Plus when they were a team, they were probably both at the peak of their in ring ability.
Just a, ‘what might have been.”
3- I would not only love a singles tournament, I would love several. Someone had the idea of bracketing wrestlers by decade, but I think by era might make more sense.
Pre PPV (up to 1985)
Expansion Era (85-1996)
Attitude/WWE Era (96-current)
Current
Obviously that really short shifts the older guys, but I doubt a lot of people can really debate the merits of George Hackenschmidt V Lou Thez and Verne Gage V Strangler Lewis. Still I think it would cover everyone that most people would care about.
Other potential tournament ideas- Intercontinental/US Champions, Best of the non big 2 (AWA, ECW WCCW, TNA, UWF etc…), Light Heavyweights, Gimmick Wrestlers, Pure In Ring Talent, Promos….
Regardless, thanks again Scott… This …. Was….. AWSOME!!!
I think if we do another tourney, it’d be beneficial if Scott can find a different “poll gadget” that doesn’t allow folks to vote multiple times.
I didn’t have to allow multiple votes, I just chose to. Polldaddy can easily block multiples.
Next tournament request: Best Bad Team!
Here’s my list:
New Freebirds
Young Stallions
Conquistadors
The Moondogs (Rex and Spot)
The Ding Dongs
The Jive Tones
New Rockers
Animal & Heidenriech
DOA (8 Ball & Skull)
Voodoo Kin Mafia
The Oddities (Kurrgan & Golga)
Dungeon of Doom (The Zodiac and Kamala)
Truth Comission (Recon & Sniper)
The New Foundation
High Energy
York Foundation (Thomas Rich & Richard Morton)
Renegade Warriors
Well Dunn
The Mamalukes
Stud Stable (Bunkhouse Buck & Dick Slater)
Dynamic Dudes
Southern Justice (Mark Canterbury and Dennis Knight)
Hillbillies (Uncle Elmer & Cousin Junior)
Ministry of Darkness (Viscera & Mideon)
Men on a Mission
The Bushwackers
WCW Patriots
Vicious & Delicious (Scott Norton & Buff Bagwell)
Stars n’ Stripes (The Patriot & Marcus Bagwell)
American Males
Mean Street Posse
Fire & Ice
The Colossal Kongs
The Dupps
X-Factor (X-Pac & Justin Credible)
The Bolsheviks
T & A (Test & Albert)
The New Dream Team
Rhythm & Blues
Vegas Connection (Diamond Dallas Page & Vinnie Vegas)
Fake Diesel & Fake Razor Ramon
The Cole Twins
Kronik
Master Blasters
Russian Assassins
The Machines
Tekno Team 2000
Billy & Chuck
Da Baldies
The Body Donnas
The State Patrol
3 Minute Warning
Rick Steiner & Kenny Kaos (with Judy Bagwell)
Gangsta-Nators ( John Kronus and New Jack)
The Desperados
Too Much
Right to Censor (The Goodfather & Bull Buchanan)
The Amazing French Canadians
Sisters of Love
Boogie Nights (Disco Inferno and Alex Wright)
The Basham Brothers
The New Blackjacks
The New Midnight Express
The Rock n’ Roll Express (90’s Attitude Era)
The NIT tag team tournament, to determine the 65th greatest team of all time!
York Foundation was AWESOME~!!!
TOMMY RICH, Bitches!!! Best. Promo. EVER!!!
How does the shiny trophy come into play when the award ceremony is held?
But being smashed by the loser….duh.
Christian stole it, acted like he won it, and then smashed it over Bret, leading to a “smashed up trophy” TLC match I think
Being smashed by Bret Hart… even though he won it!
Might be a lame suggestion but what about a tournament to determine the best Survivor Series elimination match? (only the elimination SS matches, so not Hogan/Taker, Shawn/Sid, etc.) Similar things have been done with WM matches where it comes down to all the usual suspects but this would be wide open. Unless I’m forgetting something, there’s no real consensus “best” SS elimination match and it would be a lot more subjective than other polls because of the wide range of talent and “favorites” in each match.
I know it’s not really a “tournament” between wrestlers but it definitely wouldn’t be as predictable as a singles wrestler tournament.
Just looked it up and apparently there have been 61 SS elimination matches. 64 is of course the perfect number for a tournament. So you’d either have to give 3 matches a bye to the second round. Or wait until after this year’s SS, where there just happens to be 3 SS matches booked, bringing the total to 64.
This tournament was awesome. I was hoping the Bulldogs would meet the Brain Busters in the finals but what can ya do?
I think the singles tournament should have be 64 great wrestlers who never won the WWE heavyweight title.
Owen Hart
Roddy Piper
Razor Ramon
Mr Perfect
To name a few.
According to wikipedia, there have been 63 intercontinental champs. Just one short of the perfect number.
Just use one of the “unofficial” champs, like Bob Holly.
I agree. Actually, I was at that set of tapings in 1995 where he and Jarrett did their multiple switches.
Couldn’t we use Ted DiBiase since he was The North American champion when it was replaced by the Intercontinental title?
Of course, this tourney would HAVE to be held in Rio De Janeiro, right?
you could do that, or if you want official champions you could give someone like Jericho a bye in the first round on a account of him having the most reigns or something…
though there may only be 62, depending on whether Benoit is included or not…
rather than a wide-sweeping “singles” tournament, why not do a “WWE Champion of Champions Tournament”, featuring the 35 guys (by my count) who have held some incarnation of the WWF/WWE World Heavyweight Championship during the Wrestlemania era. I even went ahead and got all the names for you.
Hulk Hogan
Andre the Giant
Randy Savage
Ultimate Warrior
Sgt. Slaughter
Undertaker
Ric Flair
Bret Hart
Yokozuna
Diesel
Shawn Michaels
Sid
Steve Austin
Kane
The Rock
Mankind
Triple H
Big Show
Kurt Angle
Brock Lesnar
Eddie Guerrero
JBL
John Cena
Edge
Rob Van Dam
Jeff Hardy
Batista
Bill Goldberg
Chris Benoit
Randy Orton
Booker T
CM Punk
Chris Jericho
Rey Mysterio
The Great Khali
That’s 35 by my count (I didn’t include Vince and his four-day title reign in 1999), so you could do a 32-man tournament by putting the 6 weakest guys (in your opinion) in 3 “play-in” matches to qualify for the 32-man tournament and then form the bracket.
in case you were wondering, my 6 candidates for the “play-in” matches would be Slaughter, Sid, Kane, JBL, RVD, and Khali, but that’s entirely up to you.
One idea that someone mentioned was a “Best Wrestlers Never to be World Champion”- If we consider- Pre WCW NWA, WCW, WWF/E (both WWE and World titles), AWA, ECW and TNA as “World Champions” I think this would be a good 64 Man list- note this is just in the PPV (post 85) Era
2 Cold Scorpio
Abdulla the Butcher
Ahmed Johnson
Arn Anderson
Bad News Allen
Barry Windham
Big Bossman
Big John Stud
Billy Gunn
Bob Orton
Bobby Lashley
Brian Pillman
Bruiser Brody
Brutus Beefcake
D Low Brown
Davey Boy Smith
Dean Malinko
Don Muraco
Dustin “Golddust” Rhodes
Great Muta
Greg Valentine
Honky Tonk Man
Jacques Rougeau
Jake Roberts
Jim Duggan
Jimmy Snuka
John Morrison
Junk Yard Dog
Ken Shamrock
Kevin Sullivan
Kevin Von Erich
King Kong Bundy
Magnum TA
Marc Merro
Mark Henry
Marty Jannetty
Matt Hardy
Meng
Michael Hayes
Mike Rotundo
MVP
Nikita Koloff
One Man Gang
Owen Hart
Paul Orndorff
Rick Rude
Rick Steiner
Rikishi
Roaddogg
Roddy Piper
Scott Hall
Shelton Benjamin
Steve Williams
Steven Regal
Tatanka
Ted DiBiase
Terry Gordy
Terry Taylor
Test
Tito Santana
Tully Blanchard
Umaga
Wahoo McDaniel
X Pac
Guys who did not make the cut- Al Snow, Billy Kidman, Bobby Eaton
Chavo Guerrero, Crush, Dave Finlay, Godfather, Hillbilly Jim, Bob Holly, Earthquake, George Steele, Val Venis, Tajari, Shane Helmes, Shane McMahon, Lance Storm, Nikolai Volkoff
I like this better than any combination of WWE champion or Intercontinental; because those tourney’s are going to be pretty predictable.
Even if Scott does not want to do it, it gave me something to do at work on a day when I had a meeting postponed and it got me thinking about some good wrestlers…. so once again the fantasy tournament has made me happy.
For the record I have Magnum TA winning out of that list, but Muta, Owne, Hall and Rude would be tough outs.
Russo booked my tournament, and it came down to Arn Anderson v. Bruiser Brody in a “Last Man Stabbing” match.
Ami I supposed to feel so ashamed for laughing at that?
Yes. Sicko.
Guilty as charged!
Mantaur? Berserker? Come on, make a competent list! We’re 90’s WWF fans here!
Also, you need more Canada. So I’d throw in the Mountie and Dino Bravo.
Check that, found el Mountie’s name. Sub in, say, the eye-patch guy. Or Stu Hart.
You mean Jean-Pierre Lafitte?
Hmm–maybe we should have the WrestleCrap tournament?
I actually thought we should have a “Did Not Die By Natural Causes” tournament. Now that is sick.
FYI, in said tournament, I was all-in on the original Ultimate Warrior.
You all don’t want to suffer from “fantasy tournament” burnout, do you?
Maybe you’ve got a point–maybe they should be spaced out more? If we do them one right after the other, there’ll be so many of them and each one will be so meaningless…that we’ll be qualified to book PPVs for WWE!
Totally agree. Also, i’m sure Scott doesn’t want to do these every couple of weeks.
I”m all for the tournament to crown the best wrestler never to be a world champion in NWA-WCW-WWF–WWE history.
But if any of us were the wrestling nerds we claim to be someone would find the 64 survivor series elimination teams and we would do that tournament in honor of survivor series. Though I’m guessing Scott is against so many names and teams in a tournament.
Done.
We should wait a few weeks, as said above. But, getting to Survivor Series…
They always do it different, with some five-on-five and some four-on-four. But I looked at Wikipedia…
There have been 68 four-man teams. We could nix the pair that were on the 1996 free-for-all (two teams, captained by Billy and Bart Gunn. Feuding brothers!)
We could also nix the two teams from 2006 (I think) Legends vs. Spirit Squad. That makes 64.
Someone else can look up the five-on-five teams if that is preferred.
if that tournament of four-man teams from all the Survivor Series goes down, I’m thinking none of those 1996 squads are going to last very long.
Furnas + Lafon/The Godwinns? Owen + Bulldog/The New Rockers? Marc Mero/Rocky Maivia/Jake Roberts/The Stalker? Crush/Lawler/HHH/Goldust? Faarooq/Vader/New Diesel/New Ramon? Flash Funk/Snuka/Savio Vega/Yokozuna?
The only thing saving that PPV is the best Bret Hart match ever, IMO (his first match with Austin).
Scott gave the HBK/Sid match from that PPV ****, but I just don’t see it at all (and I’m a massive HBK mark)
If said tournament happened, I would bet some of the 1989 Hulkamaniacs. Hogan, as champion, plus Demoltion as tag team champions and Jake Roberts. Pretty solid team.
And the 1996 teams were terrible, yes.
best 4-man heel teams ever?
I’m partial to Dibiase/Honky Tonk/Valentine/Undertaker (from ‘90), Perfect/Ax/Smash/Crush (also from ‘90), and a team that might have been my pick to win the whole thing with the kind of people who visit this site, Benoit/Malenko/Eddie/Saturn (from 2000)
I agree. The Radicals would go far.
Any team with Undertaker might do well…how about 1993? People don’t like Luger, but you have the Steiners, Taker and Luger? Pretty solid team.