This entry was posted
on Monday, November 9th, 2009 at 12:54 am and is filed under Rants.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
This relates to nothing, but Scott – any plans to check out DGUSA? 15 bucks and there’s no way it’s less than 1/3 as good as your standard $45 WWE show.
I picked the Hart Foundation and currently deciding between Steiners (team of the 90’s) and E&C (team of the 00’s). That one is virtuality impossible to pick. I’m sorta siding with Steiners simply because it seems all the great E&C matches were gimmick matches, whereas with Steiners, they didn’t need to have a gimmick match in order to have a great match.
Dude but what will live in the memory for longer TLC 2 or some random Steiner match… I think the ‘oh it’s a gimmick match’ thing is a cop out to complain about.. they could of been in these type of matches and made them fail miserably. Edge and Christian helped make the TLC which is about to have a PPV dedicated to it!
That’s hardly fair. People still remember Steiners vs Sting/Luger. Steiners have had their own share of memorable matches. Hell, people still remember Steiners v Hart Brothers and that took place at a nothing tv taping and it was a dark match to boot. Do people still remember any dark match involving E+C?
They were together from late 98 to 2001… well think about it.. they only had a few years together and are considered by some as the best ever… that just sums up what they achieved in such a small space of time. People overlook the consistently fun matches they had in 2000 week to week on Raw and SD… I remember loads of fun teamings with Kurt vs the likes of the Rock, Taker etc.
Steiner for as many awesome matches as they had they had many boring ass shitty ones too.
If I were to list the final four it would be
1) Edge and Christian
2) Steiners
3) Hart Foundation
4) Bulldogs
Harts to me just seemed to be cooler than the bulldogs and Bret just looked like a star in the making while Dynamite and Bulldog just looked like great tag wrestlers nothing more nothing less.
I am a huge Bulldogs mark, so I will fully admit to a bias here, but I do not get the love for the Harts. Of the four teams remaining, I would rank them fourth in terms of influence, drawing power and in ring ability (of the four, only E/C could really cut a great promo).
The Harts were a very good, but not great team that fit well in the 80’s WWF tag formula. But, just in my opinion, they are getting way overrated because of Brett’s post team success.
Again that is not to say they were not a good- fun team. Just that if you look at the actual accomplishments of the team, they would rank one step above the Killer Bees. Although I guess it is fitting that they would be against the Bulldogs here- that was like a WWF version of the R-n-R/Midnights feud.
E/C Vs the Steiners is a coin flip. I think people might tend to forget how jaw droppingly good they were at one point. They are one of the few teams in history who could have legitimately main evented a PPV.
Having said that, I think E/C were just as good in the ring and light years ahead of them on the mic.
I remember Scott saying at one point that E/C were so good they only way to get the tag titles off them was with a super team like Rock and Undertaker. As good as the Steiners were they were never that dominating. So I would go E/C by like 50.5% to 49.5%.
My picks Bulldogs VS E/C
But, this whole thing is the most fun I have had online in a while. Thanks again Scott.
Any chance of a singles tournament next?
I thought Hart Foundation and Bulldogs was a coin flip. Both were the same in terms of drawing power and while Dynamite Kid was considered one of the greatest talented wrestlers ever, I think HF delivered more good consistent matches and my last thoughts on HF were a team that sort of went down with a bang, and my last thoughts of Bulldogs was a pathetic broken down Dynamite Kid.
Anyways, I agree that E&C and Steiners both drew money, and E&C owned Steiners on the mic, but Steiners were a super team. Steiners were like the Road Warriors…with talent. They rarely jobbed and just went out and killed anyone they faced, whereas with E&C they had to kill themselves in order to have a good match. Plus Steiners got to work with WCW main eventers on a regular basis like Vader, Sting, Ric Flair and Luger who were the Rock/Undertaker’s of their day.
Harts did something not a lot of tag teams do, first win the belts, lose them, sink, keep working and then rise to win the belts again 3 years later. They also didn’t self destruct like most tag teams. They had long reigns with the belts too, 9 months and 7 months respectively. With the exception of Demolitions run (when they first took the belts from the Harts) the 9 month run is a 3-way tie for the 2nd longest reign of the 80s, tieing with Adrian Adonis & Dick Murdoch and the Bulldogs.
Harts the 7 month run in the early 90s was the longest until Owen and Davey Boy had it for 8 months in 96/7. Those are the two longest WWF tag belt runs in the 90s. And I think Owen/Bulldog was Hart Foundation 2.0 with Owen being Bret and Bulldog being Neidhart.
In short their actual accomplishments make them among the very best tag teams in the 80s and 90s. I’m expecting them to win the tournament.
Like I said, I have tons of respect for all the teams left, so really there is no obvious right or wrong pick.
I think the Bulldogs were the better team because while Bret and Kid were very close in terms of in ring ability, Davey Boy was way better then the Anvil. They could both play the power guy, but Smith could really go with the right opponent to guide him. Plus Kid and Hart have both said that they only way the Foundation got the titles was because the Bulldogs lobbied so hard from them to be the ones who got the win with the Bulldogs had to drop them.
I think in general, my feeling is that the Bulldogs were main eventing B shows as champs and were revolutionary and very influential while the Harts were really good, but will be best remembered for launching Bret. Still, they are very close and God Bless the Harts for picking up the ball and running as hard and far as they did…. I think mostly it is a matter of personal taste.
And like I said, I know the Steiners were just super badass in their prime. they were probably the number two faces behind Sting in the NWA/WCW 90’s. And for them to have as good of a WWF run as they did while being so solidly identified as a WCW team is really impressive…. there is no wrong pick here, so I will not argue your point at all.
I will say it is great to be able to have these types of debate. It is something that made wrestling really fun for me back in the day.
No Road Warriors or Midnights AT LEAST in the semis? This has lost all credibility. Should have been easy for Beautiful Bobby and Sweet Stan especially with James E and Big Bubba in their corner.
What I don’t understand is how this toruney was falling over with NWA teams, and now we are down to 1.
I admit to my love and bias for most things NWA, but IMHumbleO, I think the NWA had better tag teams than WWF, and it is being poorly represented here.
E+C look so out of place here, its ricockulous.
Still loving the tourney though fellas, but I think we should let ires die down before a singles one is considered.
Plus it has to 128. rattled off 50 world champs in my head and didnt even include alot of people.
This tournament has been good. And fun. Caused me to join and comment after just reading Scott for years.
These teams feel mostly right. Harts and Steiners would be a good final. Jamie Coville brings up a great point: The Harts were one of the top teams ever in terms of what they actually did. Many classic WWF teams from that era never held the gold, and the foundation did it twice, as heels and then as faces.
One idea for another tournament: Survivor Series teams (or war games, for the NWA fans). Just look at every War Games team ever (separating five and four-man teams) and pit them in a super tournament. Pick the ultimate War Games team. You could do the same for Survivor Series.
I remember as a kid, liking the Bulldogs well enough, but always feeling like they couldn’t get it done for the tag titles. I never felt that way about the Hart Foundation, even when I was little and despised Jimmy Hart. Maybe I’m misremembering wrestling, but the Hart Foundation feel like a more significant team to me, and I’m only thinking of the tag team, not the later (super awesome) faction.
On the other side, I really liked the Steiner brothers a lot, but E&C is the only tag team I ever paid money specifically to go see.
Lastly, I didn’t comment on this in the other thread, but I think poor Chavo is getting hurt by Eddie’s post-tag team rise to the top as well as some of his post-tag team gimmicks/angles. I had no problem with their run through the tournament and I also feel like if they had stayed together longer, Chavo’s credibility now would be much higher now. At the time, I thought they were a great team and they are still, to me, a memorable team.
One last point. I was never a huge Road Warriors fan, but my brother thought they were the greatest ever and said so at every turn, which probably influenced me into thinking so. I remember when WWF used to show who was fighting next week on Superstars of Wrestling and they showed a graphic of the Road Warriors who, to my knowledge, were still NWA wrestlers, we got super excited and thought it was the biggest thing ever.
Point is, though I didn’t love them, I did vote for them in each round and was surprised to see them get eliminated.
Also, LOL at anyone thinking a fantasy blog tag tournament ever had any credibility.
Just because they’re a team from the new era of wrestling shouldn’t mean that they can’t be considered one of the best teams ever. I know when people think of great tag teams, they often look back to the 80s when tag teams was considered important.
But anyways, E&C should be considered one of the greats: they drew money, could talk and had memorable matches and they tagged for a good few years.
Drew money? They just happened to be wrestling during a time when some of the biggest stars ever were taking turns main eventing. Nobody ordered pay-per-views just to see Edge or Christian.
And name a match they were involved in that would be considered memorable without the use of props.
They drew nothing. They were bit players in the Attitude machine. Rock/HHH/Foley/Austin was on top. You can’t even say that E+C were in the mix of top guys DRAWING. They never main evented to my knowledge.
My girlfriend and I used to order PPVs and went to a few shows because she loved E&C. She used to think wrestling was stupid, but really got pulled in by those guys. We wouldn’t have ordered PPVs or went to events if not for them, so it’s unfair to say they never drew a dime.
Obviously, I’m biased because I’m a huge fan, but being a huge fan is kind of the point I’m arguing.
I voted for the Steiners here because I think a Harts/Steiners final makes the most sense and does this tournament right, but just for the record, I did actually pay money to see Edge & Christian during their prime. My girlfriend at the time (who didn’t even really like wrestling) came with me and held up a sign that said “We have flash photography.”
So there, I guess. They weren’t as big as Austin/Rock/Foley/Angle, but they were a draw and their feud with the Dudleys and Hardys was a big reason the product was so popular 99-01.
Yeah, I kind of agree with that as well. Edge and Christian were a good team and generally put on good matches, but they aren’t on the same level as some of these other teams in my mind. I didn’t really like 98-99 in the WWF though, so I didn’t really see them until 2000. They just weren’t around long enough to stick out in my mind.
All I have to say is there was the cover of PWI one time that said that Sting and the Great Muta had an upset win over the Steiners. Two of the biggest stars at the time and it was an upset to beat the Steiners. Not to mention the Frakensteiner was the coolest move at the time.
Since we’re indulging our inner geeks here…how about future tourneys featuring superheroes, supervillains, and superhero teams? Back in the comic book edition of the lightning round, I recall a heated debate over whether Punisher was or was not a superhero so it would be interesting to see that sort of thing spread over a tournament.
I see the winner of the Bulldogs/Hart Foundation match taking the tournament as both teams are far above the Steiners and E & C in terms of ability and and one could argue, longevity.
E&C are better separate than as a collective. As a team, their matches were almost always against the Hardys and the Dudleys and usually gimmick matches.
The Steiners, while admittedly awesome, were not exactly known to have a great match with any and every team. Scott Steiner was a phenomenal wrestler and athlete and could have been THE major singles star, but after a few years, seem to loose his steam as an innovator. Rick Steiner was just kinda there. I think they are comparable to what a Davey Boy Smith-Jim Neidhart tag team would be like, slightly better.
Just an opinion, like everyone else…
In any case, this tournament–the voting and discussions–have been a joy. I hope SK does another down the line.
Didn’t DBS and The Anvil team after they jumped to WCW with Bret in 98? Did they ever face The Steiners? I think Scott joined the nWo not long after they arrived so they probably didn’t meet but maybe?
In a straight up fight or legit wrestling match, Steiners would clobber E/C. But in the realm of professional wrestling, shenanigans and all, E/C would pull out a victory. Doesn’t matter though, they are losing to Hart Foundation next round anyways.
With a lot of these debates, especially the Steiners vs. E & C stuff, the real argument many of you seem to be having is about the era in which these teams wrestled, not the teams themselves.
The “never drew” argument is pointless to use on E & C because tag team wrestling was not put in a position to “draw” in 2000 WWF, at least not compared to other eras. (I would also argue that the main event as the only “draw” is an outdated concept from the days of territories and pre-live-weekly television but that’s a whole other discussion.) Same with the longevity argument. Tag teams in the early 2000s just did not last as long as tag teams in the late 80’s/early 90’s. Apples and oranges.
While I like teams like LOD, Demolition, Steiners, my favorites as a kid were the Hart Foundation (and the Brainbusters) and my favorites of the Attitude era were E & C. So I am liking how this has turned out. I definitely appreciate the Midnights and Rock N Rolls too, but as a WWF fan, I’m not quite as familiar with all the WCW/NWA stuff (although the Southern Boys/Midnights match is a favorite of mine.)
Also, everyone kept mentioning in that thread how the Demos were “better workers” and had better matches.
Where are all these great Demolition matches? Their title loss to Tully/Arn? The title loss to the Hart Foundation (which had Crush, by the way)? Or is it their mediocre title win over Strike Force?
LOD had great matches against the Horsemen as well (and more than the Demos), good matches against the Rockers and Hart Foundation, and some good brawls against Dusty/Sting, the SST and the Nation of Domination.
I just watched some Demolition matches last night, just to refresh my memory, and it was confirmed. They had a cool look (minus the studded diapers) and a decent finisher, but their matches were never much to write home about, really. For me, it came down to two similar teams, but LOD had cooler spikes, cooler power moves and a much better finisher.
The Steiners were huge names everywhere they went (Japan, WWF, NWA/WCW, even those couple ECW matches) and put on exciting, believable matches with teams ranging from The Road Warriors to The Midnight Express to The Varsity Club to The Heavenly Bodies to Harlem Heat to the Outsiders. They could keep up with faster teams and play the big bad monsters, they could use their wrestling ability and teamwork to get over on bigger teams. Their promos weren’t great, but a lot of the youngsters seem to forget that promos were less significant before the Attitude era. Y’know, when there was wrestling going on. In the “three-match RAW era”, yeah, E&C were great, because frankly they spent more time cutting promos then wrestling. When they did, they needed some kind of gimmick to make their matches get that extra “*” ya’ll care so much about. They also usually needed a three-team match to do it. I don’t remember the tournament being about cutting promos, I just see “Steiners vs Edge and Christian” and, silly me, I think of a wrestling match. And to whomever questioned Rick Steiner’s presence, go watch a Steiners match in the States where the crowd isn’t barking incessantly before Rick even hits the ring. I’ll save you the time- there isn’t one. Oh gosh these guys so over, and the image of Scott standing over Rick in the classic Steiner pose is as iconic as any “conchairto” I’ve ever seen. How do we even know if these guys would get promo time in the tourney? And to think that an Edge and Christian promo could draw more money then a Cornette/Midnights? Maybe E&C would get more yucks, and maybe a few more swoons from the girlies, but laughing and swooning isn’t what draws over the long term.
Cornette’s hillbilly promos weren’t better than E&C’s.
But I agree with everything else.
The Steiners were just incredible. Amazingly, I didn’t even like them that much as a kid, because they didn’t have the “cool look” I liked in some of their opponents. However, looking back and watching their matches from the NWA, WCW, WWF and especially Japan, they were the real deal and maybe the best team ever. As you said, they could work any style against any opponent, and I don’t just mean “big teams, little teams,” I mean, “North American style, southern formula, Japanese style, etc.”
E&C was the best tag team of the Attitude era, for sure, but they don’t belong with the Steiners.
While I’m glad the Charismatic Enigma and his chubby brother didn’t make it this far, Edge and Christian just don’t stack up with the likes of the Steiners and the Hart Foundation. E&C had seven tag titles in about one year, which isn’t that impressive to me. While the Hardys/E&C/Dudleys wrestled each other a thousand times in 2000-2001, that doesn’t place these teams among the best ever. And I’d vote the Steiners over the Harts for the finals, too.
Here’s why I picked the Steiners to win. When Scott debuted and joined up with Rick, no one had ever seen a team like them. Suplexes in wrestling were pretty limited (at least in the US) and all of a sudden you had this freak in Scott Steiner and Rick started incorporating it as well that just suplexed the shit out of you. They also had a pretty intense mat wrestling styled which tied in perfectly into their characters.
Now, I loved E&C as well because they were so damn entertaining. However, in a straight match against the Steiners, the power they possessed would be just too much for E&C to handle.
Vote E & C they were just more all rounders and I voted for Hart Foundation.. being British that was a very difficult thing to do.
Ditto, if this was 20 years ago I couldn’t have done it but I think HF were slightly better. Not much in it though.
This relates to nothing, but Scott – any plans to check out DGUSA? 15 bucks and there’s no way it’s less than 1/3 as good as your standard $45 WWE show.
I picked the Hart Foundation and currently deciding between Steiners (team of the 90’s) and E&C (team of the 00’s). That one is virtuality impossible to pick. I’m sorta siding with Steiners simply because it seems all the great E&C matches were gimmick matches, whereas with Steiners, they didn’t need to have a gimmick match in order to have a great match.
Dude but what will live in the memory for longer TLC 2 or some random Steiner match… I think the ‘oh it’s a gimmick match’ thing is a cop out to complain about.. they could of been in these type of matches and made them fail miserably. Edge and Christian helped make the TLC which is about to have a PPV dedicated to it!
That’s hardly fair. People still remember Steiners vs Sting/Luger. Steiners have had their own share of memorable matches. Hell, people still remember Steiners v Hart Brothers and that took place at a nothing tv taping and it was a dark match to boot. Do people still remember any dark match involving E+C?
Not to mention, E+C: team of the 00s!?!?
They broke up in 01!! You have the right to your opinion, but sheesh, 1 year?!
They were together from late 98 to 2001… well think about it.. they only had a few years together and are considered by some as the best ever… that just sums up what they achieved in such a small space of time. People overlook the consistently fun matches they had in 2000 week to week on Raw and SD… I remember loads of fun teamings with Kurt vs the likes of the Rock, Taker etc.
Steiner for as many awesome matches as they had they had many boring ass shitty ones too.
If I were to list the final four it would be
1) Edge and Christian
2) Steiners
3) Hart Foundation
4) Bulldogs
Harts to me just seemed to be cooler than the bulldogs and Bret just looked like a star in the making while Dynamite and Bulldog just looked like great tag wrestlers nothing more nothing less.
Just my two cents-
I am a huge Bulldogs mark, so I will fully admit to a bias here, but I do not get the love for the Harts. Of the four teams remaining, I would rank them fourth in terms of influence, drawing power and in ring ability (of the four, only E/C could really cut a great promo).
The Harts were a very good, but not great team that fit well in the 80’s WWF tag formula. But, just in my opinion, they are getting way overrated because of Brett’s post team success.
Again that is not to say they were not a good- fun team. Just that if you look at the actual accomplishments of the team, they would rank one step above the Killer Bees. Although I guess it is fitting that they would be against the Bulldogs here- that was like a WWF version of the R-n-R/Midnights feud.
E/C Vs the Steiners is a coin flip. I think people might tend to forget how jaw droppingly good they were at one point. They are one of the few teams in history who could have legitimately main evented a PPV.
Having said that, I think E/C were just as good in the ring and light years ahead of them on the mic.
I remember Scott saying at one point that E/C were so good they only way to get the tag titles off them was with a super team like Rock and Undertaker. As good as the Steiners were they were never that dominating. So I would go E/C by like 50.5% to 49.5%.
My picks Bulldogs VS E/C
But, this whole thing is the most fun I have had online in a while. Thanks again Scott.
Any chance of a singles tournament next?
I thought Hart Foundation and Bulldogs was a coin flip. Both were the same in terms of drawing power and while Dynamite Kid was considered one of the greatest talented wrestlers ever, I think HF delivered more good consistent matches and my last thoughts on HF were a team that sort of went down with a bang, and my last thoughts of Bulldogs was a pathetic broken down Dynamite Kid.
Anyways, I agree that E&C and Steiners both drew money, and E&C owned Steiners on the mic, but Steiners were a super team. Steiners were like the Road Warriors…with talent. They rarely jobbed and just went out and killed anyone they faced, whereas with E&C they had to kill themselves in order to have a good match. Plus Steiners got to work with WCW main eventers on a regular basis like Vader, Sting, Ric Flair and Luger who were the Rock/Undertaker’s of their day.
Harts did something not a lot of tag teams do, first win the belts, lose them, sink, keep working and then rise to win the belts again 3 years later. They also didn’t self destruct like most tag teams. They had long reigns with the belts too, 9 months and 7 months respectively. With the exception of Demolitions run (when they first took the belts from the Harts) the 9 month run is a 3-way tie for the 2nd longest reign of the 80s, tieing with Adrian Adonis & Dick Murdoch and the Bulldogs.
Harts the 7 month run in the early 90s was the longest until Owen and Davey Boy had it for 8 months in 96/7. Those are the two longest WWF tag belt runs in the 90s. And I think Owen/Bulldog was Hart Foundation 2.0 with Owen being Bret and Bulldog being Neidhart.
In short their actual accomplishments make them among the very best tag teams in the 80s and 90s. I’m expecting them to win the tournament.
Like I said, I have tons of respect for all the teams left, so really there is no obvious right or wrong pick.
I think the Bulldogs were the better team because while Bret and Kid were very close in terms of in ring ability, Davey Boy was way better then the Anvil. They could both play the power guy, but Smith could really go with the right opponent to guide him. Plus Kid and Hart have both said that they only way the Foundation got the titles was because the Bulldogs lobbied so hard from them to be the ones who got the win with the Bulldogs had to drop them.
I think in general, my feeling is that the Bulldogs were main eventing B shows as champs and were revolutionary and very influential while the Harts were really good, but will be best remembered for launching Bret. Still, they are very close and God Bless the Harts for picking up the ball and running as hard and far as they did…. I think mostly it is a matter of personal taste.
And like I said, I know the Steiners were just super badass in their prime. they were probably the number two faces behind Sting in the NWA/WCW 90’s. And for them to have as good of a WWF run as they did while being so solidly identified as a WCW team is really impressive…. there is no wrong pick here, so I will not argue your point at all.
I will say it is great to be able to have these types of debate. It is something that made wrestling really fun for me back in the day.
Pretty easy picks for me this time around:
-E&C
-Hart Foundation
Gotta support my Canadian boys!
No Road Warriors or Midnights AT LEAST in the semis? This has lost all credibility. Should have been easy for Beautiful Bobby and Sweet Stan especially with James E and Big Bubba in their corner.
MNX I understand but Road Warriors should have never made it that far. For me, this has been an excellent field.
What I don’t understand is how this toruney was falling over with NWA teams, and now we are down to 1.
I admit to my love and bias for most things NWA, but IMHumbleO, I think the NWA had better tag teams than WWF, and it is being poorly represented here.
E+C look so out of place here, its ricockulous.
Still loving the tourney though fellas, but I think we should let ires die down before a singles one is considered.
Plus it has to 128. rattled off 50 world champs in my head and didnt even include alot of people.
This tournament has been good. And fun. Caused me to join and comment after just reading Scott for years.
These teams feel mostly right. Harts and Steiners would be a good final. Jamie Coville brings up a great point: The Harts were one of the top teams ever in terms of what they actually did. Many classic WWF teams from that era never held the gold, and the foundation did it twice, as heels and then as faces.
One idea for another tournament: Survivor Series teams (or war games, for the NWA fans). Just look at every War Games team ever (separating five and four-man teams) and pit them in a super tournament. Pick the ultimate War Games team. You could do the same for Survivor Series.
I remember as a kid, liking the Bulldogs well enough, but always feeling like they couldn’t get it done for the tag titles. I never felt that way about the Hart Foundation, even when I was little and despised Jimmy Hart. Maybe I’m misremembering wrestling, but the Hart Foundation feel like a more significant team to me, and I’m only thinking of the tag team, not the later (super awesome) faction.
On the other side, I really liked the Steiner brothers a lot, but E&C is the only tag team I ever paid money specifically to go see.
Lastly, I didn’t comment on this in the other thread, but I think poor Chavo is getting hurt by Eddie’s post-tag team rise to the top as well as some of his post-tag team gimmicks/angles. I had no problem with their run through the tournament and I also feel like if they had stayed together longer, Chavo’s credibility now would be much higher now. At the time, I thought they were a great team and they are still, to me, a memorable team.
One last point. I was never a huge Road Warriors fan, but my brother thought they were the greatest ever and said so at every turn, which probably influenced me into thinking so. I remember when WWF used to show who was fighting next week on Superstars of Wrestling and they showed a graphic of the Road Warriors who, to my knowledge, were still NWA wrestlers, we got super excited and thought it was the biggest thing ever.
Point is, though I didn’t love them, I did vote for them in each round and was surprised to see them get eliminated.
Also, LOL at anyone thinking a fantasy blog tag tournament ever had any credibility.
How are Edge & Christian any less flukey than the Blondes? Jesus Christ, what the hell are they doing in the final four?
Just because they’re a team from the new era of wrestling shouldn’t mean that they can’t be considered one of the best teams ever. I know when people think of great tag teams, they often look back to the 80s when tag teams was considered important.
But anyways, E&C should be considered one of the greats: they drew money, could talk and had memorable matches and they tagged for a good few years.
Drew money? They just happened to be wrestling during a time when some of the biggest stars ever were taking turns main eventing. Nobody ordered pay-per-views just to see Edge or Christian.
And name a match they were involved in that would be considered memorable without the use of props.
BINGO.
They drew nothing. They were bit players in the Attitude machine. Rock/HHH/Foley/Austin was on top. You can’t even say that E+C were in the mix of top guys DRAWING. They never main evented to my knowledge.
Were they good? Yes.
Were they great? Its debatable.
My girlfriend and I used to order PPVs and went to a few shows because she loved E&C. She used to think wrestling was stupid, but really got pulled in by those guys. We wouldn’t have ordered PPVs or went to events if not for them, so it’s unfair to say they never drew a dime.
Obviously, I’m biased because I’m a huge fan, but being a huge fan is kind of the point I’m arguing.
I voted for the Steiners here because I think a Harts/Steiners final makes the most sense and does this tournament right, but just for the record, I did actually pay money to see Edge & Christian during their prime. My girlfriend at the time (who didn’t even really like wrestling) came with me and held up a sign that said “We have flash photography.”
So there, I guess. They weren’t as big as Austin/Rock/Foley/Angle, but they were a draw and their feud with the Dudleys and Hardys was a big reason the product was so popular 99-01.
Yeah, I kind of agree with that as well. Edge and Christian were a good team and generally put on good matches, but they aren’t on the same level as some of these other teams in my mind. I didn’t really like 98-99 in the WWF though, so I didn’t really see them until 2000. They just weren’t around long enough to stick out in my mind.
All I have to say is there was the cover of PWI one time that said that Sting and the Great Muta had an upset win over the Steiners. Two of the biggest stars at the time and it was an upset to beat the Steiners. Not to mention the Frakensteiner was the coolest move at the time.
At the time?
It still is!
Since we’re indulging our inner geeks here…how about future tourneys featuring superheroes, supervillains, and superhero teams? Back in the comic book edition of the lightning round, I recall a heated debate over whether Punisher was or was not a superhero so it would be interesting to see that sort of thing spread over a tournament.
I see the winner of the Bulldogs/Hart Foundation match taking the tournament as both teams are far above the Steiners and E & C in terms of ability and and one could argue, longevity.
E&C are better separate than as a collective. As a team, their matches were almost always against the Hardys and the Dudleys and usually gimmick matches.
The Steiners, while admittedly awesome, were not exactly known to have a great match with any and every team. Scott Steiner was a phenomenal wrestler and athlete and could have been THE major singles star, but after a few years, seem to loose his steam as an innovator. Rick Steiner was just kinda there. I think they are comparable to what a Davey Boy Smith-Jim Neidhart tag team would be like, slightly better.
Just an opinion, like everyone else…
In any case, this tournament–the voting and discussions–have been a joy. I hope SK does another down the line.
Didn’t DBS and The Anvil team after they jumped to WCW with Bret in 98? Did they ever face The Steiners? I think Scott joined the nWo not long after they arrived so they probably didn’t meet but maybe?
In a straight up fight or legit wrestling match, Steiners would clobber E/C. But in the realm of professional wrestling, shenanigans and all, E/C would pull out a victory. Doesn’t matter though, they are losing to Hart Foundation next round anyways.
With a lot of these debates, especially the Steiners vs. E & C stuff, the real argument many of you seem to be having is about the era in which these teams wrestled, not the teams themselves.
The “never drew” argument is pointless to use on E & C because tag team wrestling was not put in a position to “draw” in 2000 WWF, at least not compared to other eras. (I would also argue that the main event as the only “draw” is an outdated concept from the days of territories and pre-live-weekly television but that’s a whole other discussion.) Same with the longevity argument. Tag teams in the early 2000s just did not last as long as tag teams in the late 80’s/early 90’s. Apples and oranges.
While I like teams like LOD, Demolition, Steiners, my favorites as a kid were the Hart Foundation (and the Brainbusters) and my favorites of the Attitude era were E & C. So I am liking how this has turned out. I definitely appreciate the Midnights and Rock N Rolls too, but as a WWF fan, I’m not quite as familiar with all the WCW/NWA stuff (although the Southern Boys/Midnights match is a favorite of mine.)
I really need a chart or something. I can’t figure out what happened to Demolition.
They lost to the Road Warriors, I think, but I can’t recall what round it was, much less which division.
They got eliminated by the Road Warriors.
Also, everyone kept mentioning in that thread how the Demos were “better workers” and had better matches.
Where are all these great Demolition matches? Their title loss to Tully/Arn? The title loss to the Hart Foundation (which had Crush, by the way)? Or is it their mediocre title win over Strike Force?
LOD had great matches against the Horsemen as well (and more than the Demos), good matches against the Rockers and Hart Foundation, and some good brawls against Dusty/Sting, the SST and the Nation of Domination.
I just watched some Demolition matches last night, just to refresh my memory, and it was confirmed. They had a cool look (minus the studded diapers) and a decent finisher, but their matches were never much to write home about, really. For me, it came down to two similar teams, but LOD had cooler spikes, cooler power moves and a much better finisher.
Demolition was awesome. They would kick your teeth down your throuat! Plus, they had the best manager of all time.
LOD wouldn’t?
And no, Fuji is not the best manager of all time. He wouldn’t even rank in my top five. Probably six or seven, though.
You’d be wrong then.
While I love me some Mr. Fuji (for obvious reasons) I dont think he is the greatest manager of all time.
He had wacky charm… in spades.
But part of his charm was that he couldn’t cut a audible promo. His accent was too thick.
Promos schlomos. He got results.
Slick didn’t manage the Demos…
The Steiners were huge names everywhere they went (Japan, WWF, NWA/WCW, even those couple ECW matches) and put on exciting, believable matches with teams ranging from The Road Warriors to The Midnight Express to The Varsity Club to The Heavenly Bodies to Harlem Heat to the Outsiders. They could keep up with faster teams and play the big bad monsters, they could use their wrestling ability and teamwork to get over on bigger teams. Their promos weren’t great, but a lot of the youngsters seem to forget that promos were less significant before the Attitude era. Y’know, when there was wrestling going on. In the “three-match RAW era”, yeah, E&C were great, because frankly they spent more time cutting promos then wrestling. When they did, they needed some kind of gimmick to make their matches get that extra “*” ya’ll care so much about. They also usually needed a three-team match to do it. I don’t remember the tournament being about cutting promos, I just see “Steiners vs Edge and Christian” and, silly me, I think of a wrestling match. And to whomever questioned Rick Steiner’s presence, go watch a Steiners match in the States where the crowd isn’t barking incessantly before Rick even hits the ring. I’ll save you the time- there isn’t one. Oh gosh these guys so over, and the image of Scott standing over Rick in the classic Steiner pose is as iconic as any “conchairto” I’ve ever seen. How do we even know if these guys would get promo time in the tourney? And to think that an Edge and Christian promo could draw more money then a Cornette/Midnights? Maybe E&C would get more yucks, and maybe a few more swoons from the girlies, but laughing and swooning isn’t what draws over the long term.
Cornette’s hillbilly promos weren’t better than E&C’s.
But I agree with everything else.
The Steiners were just incredible. Amazingly, I didn’t even like them that much as a kid, because they didn’t have the “cool look” I liked in some of their opponents. However, looking back and watching their matches from the NWA, WCW, WWF and especially Japan, they were the real deal and maybe the best team ever. As you said, they could work any style against any opponent, and I don’t just mean “big teams, little teams,” I mean, “North American style, southern formula, Japanese style, etc.”
E&C was the best tag team of the Attitude era, for sure, but they don’t belong with the Steiners.
Now you’re just being silly. Cornette was the second best manager of all time. His promos were hardly hillbilly.
You’re wrong then.
Not my opinion. Proven Fact Gordo.
… Gordo?
I think this comes down to Steiners v. Harts.
I think that would be awesome.
While I’m glad the Charismatic Enigma and his chubby brother didn’t make it this far, Edge and Christian just don’t stack up with the likes of the Steiners and the Hart Foundation. E&C had seven tag titles in about one year, which isn’t that impressive to me. While the Hardys/E&C/Dudleys wrestled each other a thousand times in 2000-2001, that doesn’t place these teams among the best ever. And I’d vote the Steiners over the Harts for the finals, too.
Here’s why I picked the Steiners to win. When Scott debuted and joined up with Rick, no one had ever seen a team like them. Suplexes in wrestling were pretty limited (at least in the US) and all of a sudden you had this freak in Scott Steiner and Rick started incorporating it as well that just suplexed the shit out of you. They also had a pretty intense mat wrestling styled which tied in perfectly into their characters.
Now, I loved E&C as well because they were so damn entertaining. However, in a straight match against the Steiners, the power they possessed would be just too much for E&C to handle.