Not sure if you ever saw this before Scott, but I was reviewing some Orndorff/Hogan feud clips from youtube and I found something very interesting. Kind of like an alternate take of Hogan and Orndorff on the Flower Shop right before the big heel turn. Not sure if you've seen this before, or even if its blog worthy. However, I found it very interesting - I wonder if any of these "alternate takes" still exist in the vaults.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjKhSEFaU4Q (From the 0:25 mark until the 0:50 mark)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfhezkscMvk (From the 2:17 mark until the 2:33 mark)
I don't know if that is one of those "lets overdub crowd noise because Sid got a babyface pop" moments, but do notice that in the first take - the one that aired before the heel turn, and was on the Hulkamania 2 video (and I guess on Superstars or whatever it was called back then) - that Orndorff delivery is much different than the one they used in the hype video (again I'm guessing Superstars) when they had Hogan recap the heel turn in his private gym. Where they have Orndorff sound a little more heelish. Also in the second one Hogan goes "they're ready" for Studd and Bundy, where in the first one Hogan just answers "Yeah" to Adonis' "Do you accept the challenge."
It's interesting, and I wonder if they did that a lot with the Flower Shops, Piper's Pits, and Snake Pits.
I think it’s just the magic of editing, personally. I can’t speak for the 80s, but I sat through a few tapings in the 90s and never saw them do extra takes for the Funeral Parlor. I did notice some minor editing differences, though, so the same thing certainly could have happened there.
Although not quite an alternate take, I do know that SmackDown often used to have promos edited if the guy screwed up his lines (probably still do but I haven’t watched in a couple years so I can’t say either way), as Scott suggests above. Here’s an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7yP-T3ZCsg
I’ve also read live audience accounts of matches with badly blown spots (especially finishes) restarted and the spot redone. Of course, when it airs the botched version is edited out. The Taker/Angle title match on 7/4/02 is an extreme example of this (check the last minute of the video):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiKNaXIk7Qc&feature=related
In this case the tapping out and counting of the pinfall were so poorly timed they refilmed the ending with crew members in one section of an empty arena after the audience had left.
Most everyone who reads this blog probably knows all of that, but I figured I’d throw it out there in case there are some newer fans hanging out here.
Where did that 1st one (Hogan/Vince) come from? I know some people used to be able get the live RAW feed that was beamed from the arena (vs. what was beamed into homes), but is this the same for SD? I would figure it would be “encrypted” or something.
But regarding different takes, they do occur (for me, it was backstage stuff). I’ve been to 2 SD tapings in Pittsburgh where what was shown on the ‘tron did not make it that way to the airing. One was in 2003 when Brian Kendrick (going as Spanky) was trying to get a job, and he was shown talking backstage to Steph and he said something like “I drove all day from Washington State to be here.” I remember thinking “Wow, he made the cross country trip in one day?! They might wanna change that.” Sure enough, that Thursday when SD aired the backstage interaction was a another take where he said something like “I traveled really long to get here.”
The other occurred this past May. Teddy Long was talking to Edge about having to face Punk again (this was the week after the MSG show where Punk declared he was going to cash in the MitB only for Umaga to make his return and attack him). He said something like “Look, Edge, Punk rightfully won that Money in the…Briefcase match,” tripping up as he tried to finish the “Money in the Bank” phrase. On Friday, when it aired, he said “Money in the Bank” with no problem.
And yeah, botches are edited out. At some SD taping I was at (I think from 2002), Christian botched the Unprettier, and then tried again successfully. Only the correct attempt made it to tv.
I also remember a noticeable retake (not at anything I was at) back when WWE had its version of the FBI, and there was a weird shot of Nunzio with the FBI at the base of the entrance ramp talking to whoever was in the ring. The shot was tight, and you could barely see the crowd. It was later confirmed that after the show, they reshot his original promo after the show, going tight in order to hide the fact that there was no audience.
I’m assuming the Hogan/Vince clip wasn’t the broadcast version given that it wasn’t censored.
Yeah, that’s not what actually made it to air. And I believe it was the same deal with people intercepting what was recorded at the arena when it was being beamed back to the Stamford based WWE studios. I remember being able to regularly download stuff that happened after the conclusion of the show, but was being included in the “beamed” feed. I believe this Brock & Kurt kissing moment is an example of that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54QB-ePD7T8
Anyway, I have no idea how people pulled this off or if anyone still does but I always thought it was pretty cool. I have some good memories of finding gems like that on the sledgehammer forums a couple days after TV tapings.
It could have been editing . . . but I do know Hogan’s mouth moves differently. In the first video, Hogan is going “Yeah” and i the second video he’s going “Yeah, we’re ready.” And when Orndorff shouts, “No” in the first video Adonis just goes “ooooh,” and in the second he actually says “No. . . Confusion.”
However, you can’t see Wonderful’s back – so they could have dubbed lines later on. So maybe it was all done during the same segement. Although someone on Wrestlecrap.com said they said reshoots all the time at Superstar tapings in the 1980’s. And it was a big profile turn too – so there could have been an exception.
Or it could have been good editing.
Yeah, I bet it’s just good editing. I can’t think of any really good examples of this, outside of the Flair/Savage match where Flair got the title back. I know that they ended up calling off the first match midway and that Flair and Savage went to the back, before coming out and wrestling another match. I don’t know if they just edited the two parts together or what.
I’ve also noticed that there are a lot of TV matches from Coliseum Home Video releases that were on television that use completely different camera angles from the original show. The WWF must have recorded all their camera feeds and then just cut them together differently for their later releases.
Shawn Michaels vs Mr. Perfect from Coliseum Home Video is a great example. When it originally aired on the Superstars and Stripes Forever (the annual March to WrestleMania VII special) (complete with graphic spelling Shawn’s name as “Sean”) they used very different angles throughout the match, most of them emphasizing Marty Jannetty’s presence at ringside — while the Coliseum Video one minimizes his impact. In the original broadcast, Bobby Heenan leaves the broadcast booth to go down to be with Perfect as well, but of course they omit all this with Sean Mooney and Lord Alfred Hayes commentating the same match in the home video version. I just always thought it was so strange that they would redub the commentary for these matches.
They clip out little stuff too — like at Survivor Series 1990 during the PPV the camera switches to Brother Love before he’s got his cue, so there is this long camera shot of his ass before he gets into position to kick Dusty Rhodes. On the tape, the shot just stays in the ring a second or two later, before cutting outside. At WrestleMania VII I believe Bret Hart inadvertently knocked the camera man off the side of the ring at the start of the match versus The Nasty Boys. Also, anytime there was a shot of the crowd and a graphic along with the mention that they were “Live coming from the xxx arena” they would always clip that out on the video releases for some reason. I guess so the fans don’t get confused and think the tape they are watching isn’t a live feed? Well these are wrestling fans we’re talking about here…
I loved how the WWF dubbed in crowd noise for all of their syndicated shows in the late 80s and early 1990s (not PPVs though). It made the crowd sound jacked for everything and on my crappy TV at the time you couldn’t really tell.
There is a match between LOD and the Orient Express from The Main Event and the crowd is just going NUTS the whole match, like crazy heat — well the same match is on a WWF Coliseum Video with the REAL arena audio and you can practically hear a pin drop. They just aren’t popping for ANYTHING.
This of course is in stark contrast to WCW that would accidentally reveal title changes before they occurred haha.
Smackdown has been the victim of a lot of heavy editing because it’s taped. I also remember Brock facing Heyman in the buildup to WM19 in a cage match. Angle couldn’t open the door, despite trying for 10 minutes to open it, so he finally decided to climb the cage, which was extremely dangerous because Angle’s neck was in serious trouble at that point so he didn’t have a lot of strength.
My favorite piece of editing was just on 24/7 for the Feb. 1992 SNME with the Hogan/Sid turn. They show the end of the Rumble and not only is the crowd noise dubbed, but they had Gorilla & Heenan do new commentary. Which is just off the page hilarious since its supposedly the real commentary yet they hardly mention Flair, Gorilla is just like “What a backfighter Sid is!” “What a coward this Sid is!” ‘This is disgusting!”
Its made all the more laughable since Gorilla never said anything like that…as if he missed his cue to acknowledge Sid was acting heelish or he was supposed to figure it out himself and didn’t.
The other thing shocking about this dub was how poor the audio was. Heenan/Gorilla’s mics were turned up WAY too loud in the overdub and the audio keeps clipping. It almost sounds like am AM radio broadcast.
This clip is also on the “Invasion 1992″ Coliseum Home Video during the Ric Flair segment. Even in SP with hi-fi audio, it still sounds like the sloppiest dub job ever.
That was the first time I ever heard a sizable crowd boo Hogan — I was listening to RR 92 on Scramble Vision and it was quite shocking at the time. I wonder if Sid got in trouble for egging the crowd on once they started booing Hogan.
Here’s a editing blunder. It’s Bret Hart being interviewed by Shawn Michaels on Superstars shortly after WrestleMania X. At 1:38, Bret’s wrestling gear turns from black to pink (I guess they taped the segment twice and combined them together).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEsfsnfh5y4
Wow that one is pretty bad haha.
Doesn’t Hogan do an interview with Mene Gene with the old WWF title (the one with the world on it) and come out to the ring with the new WWF title (winged eagle design) at the Main Event show versus Andre?
This one’s pretty famous, I think, since a lot of people joked about it on the net.
I’m blanking on his name, but he was the Austrailian roid monkey that apparently squirted milk out his nipples once.
Anyway, there was a Smackdown taping where he ran in to save The Undertaker (I think to set up for the Wrestlemania match they were supposed to tag in). The live reports said that the first time, he missed a spinning heel kick by a mile. So they had to re-do it.
the infamous Nathan Jones…
That’s the one. Bad week = total brainfart on useless trivia. :p Thanks.
It’s probably better to actually forget him entirely. haha