Warning: Comic discussion ahead. Non-geeks can run away now.
Anyway, as everyone I’m sure knows by now, I’m firmly a DC Guy and have been ever since the 70s. My bookshelf is packed with the Showcase Presents series, in fact. However, I’ve been a big fan of the Marvel movies thus far and Iron Man was so good that I dropped a few bucks on Ebay and picked up Essential Iron Man volume 1 for cheap, and I’ve really been digging it. I love the Essentials/Showcase format with the B&W comics and a ton of content for the price of a regular TPB and would like to check more of them out. I got Avengers Volume 1 ages ago and was kind of hot and cold on it (early Justice League-ish era was great, the Hawkeye/Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver stuff not so much), but other than that I’ve got no exposure to early Marvel. I really don’t want to get into X-Men because the continuity is frankly overwhelming and I don’t find it all that interesting, but I’m open to Wolverine. I do find myself really enjoying the fun and simple Stan Lee storylines in Iron Man, so here’s my short list of what I’m looking at before I start dropping $20 a book:
- Captain America. I’ve always liked the character and it seems like a good counterpoint to Iron Man. Not sure if the goofy 70s stuff in the early Essentials volumes are worth getting through to get to the Englehart classics of the 80s, but I’m leaning towards giving it a shot, especially with the current nostalgia hoopla surrounding the character.
- Fantastic Four. Lee and Kirby! I’ve never been a fan of the franchise but it seems like it would be a Fun Superhero Comic, which is something I always like jumping into.
- Spider-Man. The obvious one, and the one comic that I flirted with in my younger years and collected in the 90s before the Clone Saga drove me away for good. The older stuff I’ve read, though, always seemed to be very heavy-handed angst stuff at times. I’ve read enough of it over the years that I don’t think it would be any huge pleasant surprise for me like Iron Man was.
Stuff I have no interest in:
- Dr. Strange. Occult stuff holds no great interest for me.
- Silver Surfer. Never got the character, never cared about “message” in my comics.
- Sub-Mariner. Underwater characters? Take a pass.
Anyone have any Essentials recommendations I’m missing?
Spider-Man Vol. 1. Starts off interesting as it introduces all the early classic villains. Gets dull after that, then BAM! Ditko starts plotting and the book goes into Holy Shit! mode and you’re left wondering why all comics can’t be that good. This continues on in Vol. 2 until Ditko is replaced with Romita and I feel those stories are lacking so I never bothered with Vol. 3. Some people much prefer Romita’s art though.
Fantastic Four is great but I’m told the very best stuff is in Vol. 3. Which is the only one I own, but I’ve read a good chunk of the earlier stories which are really good. So yes, get this.
I believe I’ve read Captain America and Daredevil’s first 10 issues and can’t remember too much about them, other than Daredevil fought Sub-Mariner and Purple Man a lot so I can’t recommend them, buy at your own risk.
Essential Hulk Vol. 1 is weird. You’ll see the first 6 issues where clearly Stan and Jack did not know what to do with the character and were making wholesale changes to him from issue to issue. Then Ditko picks up the character and while I wouldn’t classify it as great, he at least nailed down the standard Hulk that we know today and introduced some of the main villains.
One recommendation I can give is Thor. I’ve not read Vol. 1 (skipped it as it’s full of short, wonky stories) but I did pick up Vol. 2 and found it was much better than I anticipated. It features first & early Absorbing Man, Hercules & Ego stories, plus the back up Tales of Asgard with young Thor and the Warriors 3 that is just as good as the ongoing series.
There is also Essential Ant Man if you’re interested. I’ve not read it myself.
Ditko Dr. Strange is really great and should be read, but in colour.
If you are willing to buy Essential Wolverine (which is fine) I should also recommend Essential Punisher. Particularly Vol. 2 but you may like #1 as they are pretty much all guest appearances in a variety of titles, but mainly Spider-Man. Vo.. 2 is more his solo series stuff which is different and great.
I love the Essentials, but I’m starting to realize this classic stuff really is dont better justice in full colour. That said, you are right that there’s some great stuff out there.
The old Lee/Ditko Spidey is really the best stuff, though the post-Ditko stuff is great, too. Though, have you checked out the new Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon? In my opinion, it’s the best rendition of the webhead in 15-20 years; better than the movies, better than the old 90s cartoon (which never really handled Green Goblin or the Sinister Six that well, in my opinion). Plus, it has THE catchiest theme song since the old 60s cartoon. Comics-wise, one of my favourite runs was Paul Jenkins (and most art with Mark Buckingham) writing Peter Parker, Spider-Man, which had a lot of humour and was fun as heck.
The first Capt. America Essential is great stuff, with a lot of Jack Kirby in it. Again, to recommend something modern, I can’t recommend Ed Brubaker’s current run on the title enough. It’s, hands down, the best piece of mainstream business out there, constantly getting rave reviews and always on the Top 10 sellers lists. If you’re brave enough to put the money down for it, I’d suggest getting the Captain America omnibus that collects the first 25 issues of Brubaker’s run.
Fantastic Four. Yeah, Lee/Kirby is pretty much THE best stuff for the team. Though (because there ARE some good modern stuff out there), the run by Mark Waid and the late, great Mike Wieringo was equally, pardon the pun, fantastic. Seriously.
Iron Man: You didn’t list it, but here’s one brief recommendation. I think it’s still in print, a story called “Man in the Iron Mask” or something like that. Basically, it’s a story of Tony Stark’s armour gaining sentience. It’s a great self-contained story and my favourite Iron Man story.
One big recommendation that is one of the best comics out there, period, these days, is Criminal. Another Ed Brubaker book (because the dude is imperious to a bad comic, aside from his X-Men work), but it’s really gritty crime stories. Kind of like Sin City, only a hell of a lot better written (and that’s speaking as a fan of Sin City).
Yeah, you can pick up the Brubaker Captain America Omnibus for about $40 on Amazon and it’s definitely worth it. Criminal is seriously great and so is Incognito, Brubaker’s new mini.
I’ve never been big on the Essentials, but if you’re looking for Hulk stuff, Scott, The Hulk Visionaries Peter David trades are great. You can pick them up relatively cheap if you buy used on Amazon and it’s good stuff.
An addendum to my above post:
Doing a quick google search of your archives, I forgot you had previously reviewed Spectacular Spider-Man. Honestly, I think you were a little harsh on the series, especially since it’s a show that’s gotten stronger and stronger throughout the first and second seasons.
Comparing it to the 90s cartoon, the action is a lot crisper, the story is tighter (where plots are built up through an entire season and sometimes through two seasons) and the writing/characterization has been great. Of course, it helps that Greg “Gargoyles” Weissman executive produces the show. Sure, a lot of it is “seen this already”, but give that it’s an entirely new show, they wanted to start it from scratch. So, once Eddie becomes Venom, we’ve seen the progression through the entire season. Plus, they manage to actually bring back the mystery of the Green Goblin’s identity, which was a huge thing back in the original Lee/Ditko comics. No spoilers, but the reveal at the end of the second season had me screaming “Who the hell is it, then?!”
I think you should really give it a second chance and at least check out the rest of the first season.
Where to begin?
Avengerswise, start with Essential Avengers #3; Ultron and Vision gets introduced and we get the Bromance of Hank Pym and Hawkeye started up with Hank becoming Yellowjacket and Clint becoming Goliath. V4 has the Kree-Skrull War (which is available in it’s own TPB thought it’s about $5 more expensive than V4), the Zodiac Crime Syndicate, and the start of the Vision/Scarlet Witch romance. V5 and 6 has the Avengers/Defenders War and the Celestial Madonna storyline as well as some good Kang stuff and the Avengers/Zodiac War.
Spider-Man is hard to get into because the series is haphazardly traded. Start from the beginning with the Essentials and by the time you get to volume 5/6 you can pick up the Spectacular Spider-Man Essentials (though in that case, you may want to skip the first one and start with V2, which ends just as Black Cat joins the supporting cast, which is when the book started to get good). Amazing Spidey itself doesn’t get good until John Romita Jr. takes over at which point you get Mary Jane showing up and the book moving towards soap opera stuff as Marvel figured out which girl Peter will end up with (SPOILER ALERT: It’s MJ).
X-Men; Essential Classic X-Men #3 has the Neal Adams issues which are must read, as well as the solo Beast stories. As for Essential X-Men, pretty much the entire series is good if you start from the beginning; continuitywise the Essentials are kept tight (save for V5 which reprints ALL of the Mutant Massacre books). V9 comes out this month and basically takes the series right up to the introduction of Gambit and the Xtinction Agenda, which is the standard jumping off point for most fans.
Essential X-Factor is also required reading. The entire Archangel Saga in V2 is pretty much required reading for any serious Marvel Fan.
Essential V3 has the main Englehart stuff you’ll want to read. The second Kirby run (#192-220 IIRC) is pretty much available in TPB format if you want it now and not have to wait until V4 to come out.
Iron Man is horribly collected TPBwise. Some of the better IM books are available in TPB though. Demon in the Bottle, Armor Wars (though the Armor Wars TPB omits the lead-in storyline from Iron Man #219-224), the Mandarian/Fin Fang Foom team-up (Iron Man #269-275), the entire War Machine/Death of Tony Stark storyline (#Iron Man #280-290), and Joe Casey’s “The Inevitable” (collects the mini of the same name).
Silver Surfer: pick up the second Surfer Essential as it collects the beginning of the 1987-1997 Silver Surfer series. Arguably Englehart’s best work as far as him creating a space opera universe with the slowbuild towards Kree-Skrull War II and the politics of Surfer dealing with the various space characters in the Marvel Universe.
Punisher V2 is also decent; collects the first 20 issues of the 1987-1985 series which is good clean retro-Punisher fun before they whored Punisher out with countless side titles.
Scott, I have Fantastic Four Essentials Vols 1-3 if you are interested.
I am interested. Drop me an e-mail and we’ll talk.
Scott, did you get my email(s)?
More TPB fun:
Classic New Mutants #1-4. The first 32 issues of the New Mutant series collected. Worth picking up.
X-Factor Visionaires Peter David #1-3: Collects just about the entire PAD X-Factor run, minus the annuals and his last storyline (which PAD only half-wrote)
Hulk Visionaires John Byrne: Reprints Byrne’s original non-shitty Hulk run from the 1980s. Important because it is pretty much required reading for
Hulk Visionaires Peter David 1-5: Collects Incredible Hulk #330-372, which brings the run just before things get REALLY GOOD with Smart Hulk, Betty/Marlo/Rick’s wacky ass adventures, and the Pantheon.
Infinite Gauntlet
Planet Hulk and World War Hulk
Messiah CompleX
Rise and Fall of the Shi’Ar Empire
Fantastic Four Visionaires John Byrne 1-9 (Reprints Byrne’s legendary if not sometimes craptastic Fantastic Four run)
The Avengers Assembled HC 1-3 reprints the first 40 issues of the late 90s Avengers series)
Stuff to avoid:
Every Avengers comic written by Brian Michael Bendis save for Mighty Avengers #19, which basically has Bendis conceiving an entire around Hank Pym (having been kidnapped by Skrulls after Avengers Disassembled) using his ex-wife’s funeral to basically tear Iron Man a new asshole for pretty much EVERYTHING EVIL Tony’s done in the last couple of years.
Anything Daredevil related Bendis did before issue #50 of the series.
ANYTHING written by Mark Millar. ESPECIALLY Civil War.
Civil War Front Line
Wolverine Origin
ANY of the Brand New Day Spider-Man books; they all suck so badly you’ll gouge your eyes out.
Jeph Loeb’s Hulk series.
I can gree with those with two exceptions:
-Wolverine Origin (the original mini-series, not the current atrocious series; not sure which one you mean here).
-Anything by Mark Miller (I’ll 90% agree with this, especially with crap like Wanted, but Ultimates 1 & 2 were fun for big, dumb, over the top action like a summer blockbuster.)
Millar’s Ultimates suck. Seriously suck. Marvel Adventures Avengers is superior to Millar’s neo-con garbage as far as reimagining the Avengers. Fuck, even Loeb’s Ultimates V3 is better than Millar’s crap as far as producing characters that SOUND like the Avengers, whereas Millar’s Avengers are either voiceboxs for his extreme right wing views, unlikable dicks, or craptastic attempts to make shock comedy characters (like incest Scarlet Witch or Dudley Moore-in “Arthur” Tony Stark).
Uh, Millar’s extremely LEFT wing, he’s critiquing the right wing. And I don’t love the guy but I do love Red Son.
Baker not knowing what he’s talking about? Get outta town!
Errr…Millar’s a lefty.
Ultimates 1 is very enjoyable in a daft summer blockbuster type of way, the first half of Ultimates 2 is pretty good but the second half loses it big time.
I really enojyed Red Son and I quite like Wanted – but Civil War sucked big time.
*laughs, wipes a tear* Oh, Baker. You haven’t changed a bit since the old 411 days. Never change.
*shrug* That’s your opinion, man. I never said it was anything of high value, just a big dumb summer blockbuster action flick. Plus, I liked how he characterized Captain America, because, given the time he came from, it made sense.
U3 pissed me off, mostly because they weren’t SUPPOSED to be written more like the Avengers, because the Ultimates were different kind of characters.
I actually HATED his Cap, different strokes I guess. I found Millar’s Cap to be a jingoistic bully.
Scott, as people above mentioned I can’t recommend the Ed Brubaker run on Captain America enough. I’ve read the Englehart, Stern/Byrne, Waid, and Gruenwald runs and Brubaker’s surpasses them all.
I’d also recommend the Bendis run on Daredevil (starts around #25 if memory serves) through Brubaker’s arc.
Also, I’m surprised no one has mentioned it: Sleeper. That’s another Brubaker title and one of my favorite comics of all time.
Also, if you’re a DC fan I recommend Green Lantern and the Flash: Rebirth (they’ve brought back Barry Allen)
I would have mentioned Sleeper, but didn’t want to recommend even MORE Brubaker stuff, as it was. :p
Also, I’m in the camp that doesn’t like the idea of Barry coming back. From what I’ve read, it feels like Johns is trying to exact same formula as GL: Rebirth and it just isn’t working this time around (bringing back the original, making all the other guys look like morons in comparison, resurrecting an old nemesis, etc).
I’ve enjoyed Flash: Rebirth so far. I don’t know if you’ve read Johns run on Flash (Scott, I don’t think that’s in trades, you might have to torrent it, but it’s one of the great slow burns in comics where every story thread is tied to something bigger later). I think that Wally and Jay have been portrayed well (Kyle Rayner sucked until Johns got ahold of him, IMHO).
Scott–
Your comment about the Clone Saga caught my eye. If you’re looking for a collection and you dig Spidey, pick up Ultimate SM. It captures the spirit of the Lee-Ditko stuff in a modern setting. And it’s the only place besides ToyFare magazine were Spider-Man is still funny.
Good call on Ultimate Spider-Man. Great series.
I’ve always considered ultimate spidey to be more like Spider-Man’s greatest hits. Take stuff that’s done before and retell it slower. The Bagley art is tremendous though. I punched out when BMB threw in two pages of himself complaining about the current storyline.
SHough610 and Shellsuitwarrior have been living with their heads in the sands; much like Parker and Stone of South Park fame, Millar was a fake-ass liberal who only recently, since Civil War ended, finally came out of the conservative asshole closet. What with him reacting to criticism about how he made Iron Man a fascist monster by acting all shocked and horrified that comic fans disliked the shit he had Iron Man do, complete with him basically rambling on about how Iron Man WAS right in his mind and basically throwing half of Marvel’s writing staff under the bus as far as cursing them for not jumping on the neocon bus and making Iron Man’s evil justified and GOOD for everyone, even those Iron Man killed/imprisoned under bullshit charges.
Not that Millar being neocon scum IS a big suprise; it was blatant from his days on Swamp Thing and even moreso in “Red Son”, which featured Millar basically DEFENDING Stalin as a right-wing dictator in it’s very first issue!
Also, Brubaker’s Captain America run SUCKS. SERIOUSLY SUCKS. Brubaker takes the worst aspects of Cap (Doctor Faustus, Sharon Carter, fucking Sin) mixed in with a masturbatory farce of a storyline (Bucky’s alive! And he’s a grim and gritty super-hero!) and made a never-ending run of fail that would have been laughed out of a Marvel writer’s room if it had been pitched in the 1980s or 1990s. It’s pretty clear that Brubaker has NO master plan going on (see the way that the Red Skull plotline has meandered out, complete with Brubaker turning it into a “saving throw” now that the upcoming Captain America movie means he has to bring Steve back and bring him back ASAP) and the sooner Bucky is back in the grave or retconned into being a brainwashed Nomad and Captain America is back among the living, the better. Brubaker would be better served writing X-Men, a book he’s good at writing and not bother writing Captain America.
That said, Scott you should break down and hunt down the Gruenwald Cap run issues (basically Captain America #310-443). Now Gruenwald, he was a GOOD Captain America writer and knew how to write Captain America.
Okay, in true internet nerd form I’m going to refute this point-by-point:
1) Trey Parker and Matt Stone ALWAYS claimed to be libertarians.
2) I didn’t like Civil War or his characterization of Iron Man. BUT Millar said that he thought that if people saw what was happening in the real world they would support it the same way they supported Bush’s policies. He’s a mediocre writer, not a conservative.
3) Stalin was a left-wing dictator, sorry. And how does he defend him?
4) Brubaker took the silliest aspects of Cap, you’re right, but he made them fascinating. And how he brought back Bucky was awesome. Not to spoil it for people who haven’t read it, but Captain America is now an ex-Soviet assassin (Bucky was brainwashed after he was blown off of the drone plane that Cap was trying to stop when Cap was put in suspended animation), that’s pretty awesome. There’s been a master plan since the beginning, and with the return of Steve it’s going to show even more. You might not like the title, but I didn’t like his run on X-Men, so we might have different taste (as for it being laughed out of the Marvel writer’s room in the 90’s? Dude, they were putting out shit like the Clone Saga, Onslaught, Cap-in-a-Stark-suit, and Heroes Reborn)
5) I love Gruenwald, but the end of his run sucked noodles.
Oh Baker. So many lulz from your lunacy.
have you ever read superman:red son, jesse? if you have id have to say your comprehension of the book is lacking. the whole point of the story is that the soviet superman, while doing a lot of good, enacts a police state to achieve his end — hes the personification of big brother over your shoulder as he can seemingly be everywhere at once. for all the progress made, he inspires rebellion against the regime and such complacency in the populace that they no longer use protection devices like seatbelts because they just expect superman to save them.
hardly a sterling review of communism
This is why I hate it when Scott brings up comics. Because I can depend on a million words worth of Jesse Baker’s completely insane posting. Seriously, cut down on the mushrooms.
I’ll throw my 2 cents in and say the Brubaker Cap run has been awesome and leave it at that.
The only other current marvel comic, which I’m surprised no one has mentioned, is Iron Fist which has been amazing since issue 1 of the current series and the trades are pretty cheap last time I checked.
Invincible Iron Man has been awesome as well, though I think it helps to have been reading Secret Invasion.
It’s a shame you have no interest in Silver Surfer and Dr. Strange because the 70s Defenders stuff is really cool and generally anything by Steve Gerber is really, really great. Essential Howard the Duck is just bizarre, great fun.
If you want really fun superheroics and variety, I really recommend Essential Marvel Two in One Starring Thing. It’s the solo adventures of Ben Grimm as he teams up with different heroes every issue. Really love that one.
In terms of non-Essential TPBs:
the Jeph Loeb/Tim Sale collabs are pretty great reads (Daredevil: Yellow, Hulk: Grey, Spider-Man: Blue, Wolverine & Gambit: Victims)
Peter David’s run on the Incredible Hulk is collected in the Visionaries series. The early stuff is drawn by Todd McFarlane and later on you get Dale Keown. Can’t go wrong there.
It’s funny that you mention Silver Surfer, as I just picked up Essential Silver Surfer Vol. 1 yesterday when I stopped by Wizard World in Philly. I had the same reservations about the character, but the book was the right price and I was willing to take the plunge.
I too love the Essential series and picking them up dirt cheap doesn’t hurt either.
I am sure I will get lit up by some of the more hardcore comic fans for this, but to me one of the best Marvel stories ever was the Infinity Gauntlet.
It was just a great long battle with my favorite comic character (Yes Thanos was based on Darkseid, but he is just a much better and deeper character- at least in his 90’s incarnation). It involved almost all of the major players in the Marvel U, had a ton of great twists and a very satisfying ending.
It was the series that made me a comic book fan and is still my personal favorite- even if I have read some stuff that is better.
My turn. I probably own about 60 Essentials so here we go.
First, of the 60s stuff, its pretty clear that the effort was going into Spidey and FF and everything else sort of reads like the b list. Although once you get past vol 1, Thor is incredibly awesome. And I don’t even like the character. Tremendous Kirby stuff.
FF really starts rolling after Vol 1. Spidey starts rolling after Ditko leaves (I’ve never liked him). Avengers (my favourite title), gets cool once Stan leaves. Art is always sort of hit-and-miss though.
Hulk can be really scattered. It goes through this really awful period early on with him going to another dimension or something that’s just super-boring. Vols 3 and 4 are really good though.
Daredevil and Defenders are both super yawners. Power-Man and Iron Fist are both strictly b list also.
Essential X-Men (starting with the Claremont re-start) are really tremendous. I’m not even a fan of the last 20 years version and have always found them to be confusing but the first 4 volumes or so are basically a how-to on constructing a continuing storyline.
Cap has some cool stuff in it. Any time that you get the 11 page stories though it gets a little tough to read.
I’ve got some of the horror ones to which are pretty much an acquired taste.
Anyway, I suggest Thor and X-Men primarily.
And Brubaker’s Cap run is the best book going right now.