Hey Scott:
Maybe this can spark some Blog debate, should you chose to print it. I don't watch TNA anymore since they hired Russo and fucked everything up royally in early '07, but I'm still a pretty big Samoa Joe fan, even though he's getting sloppy now out of apathy. Now I know he'll probably never go to the WWE based on schedule and mistrust of character alone, and of course Vince doesn't want him since he doesn't look like everyone else, but let's say a miracle happens and he happens to go to the WWE. What do you think would likely happen to him? They already made their "answer" to him, Unga-bunga (though I guess I can't call him that anymore since he talks now apparently), so I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be saddled with some dumb Samoan Savage gimmick, but what do you think they'd do with him. Drop him right off in ECW as a monster heel? Call him Joe Johnson and never let him talk? Lord knows his natural ability would eventually get him over but do you think he'd even get that far, or would he be forced into punching and kicking until he quit.
Well, never say never because I didn’t think CM Punk would ever make it, but Vince has a fairly narrow view of what a samoan wrestler should be, as evidenced by Umaga being the original planned gimmick for Joe. Maybe he’d try to remake Rikishi or Yokozuna with him, but I just couldn’t see Vince buying someone who doesn’t look like Batista as a “tough guy” threat. Even Vader, the prototype monster heel, didn’t get a fair run in 96. Although I think Joe would be awesome as a Vader-style monster heel. But then I also think that they should turn Jack Swagger into Brock Lesnar 2.0, so maybe I’m totally out to lunch, I dunno.
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I don’t think this will ever happen, at least not as long as Vince is running the show. Aside from the obvious issues, we all know how Vince feels about people who turn down WWE deals when they are offered. If he were to come in now, he would almost certainly be ‘humbled’ for a significant period before they would even begin to consider pushing him.
And there is the Punk Factor: yes, he ‘made it’ but he’s also garned a reputation for thinking his feces do not emit foul odors and sloppy, uneven work. Fair or not, I think Punk’s issues and the ‘failure’ of guys like Colt Cabana will make it harder for other ROH guys to get a fair shot in WWE.
Yeah, I know it’s been awhile since Joe was a ‘ROH guy’, but still.
But then I also think that they should turn Jack Swagger into Brock Lesnar 2.0
This actually is the last thing I think they should do with Swagger. I’ve note before how the parallels are eerie (collegiate background, same hulking figure with long arms, a voice that you wouldn’t expect from someone with that stature…think Mike Tyson), but I think it wouldn’t be fair (!) to Swagger if they try to remake him in Brock’s image.
To me, he seems fundamentally different from Brock in that he relies more on skill and craft than on brute power. I’ve never understood the people who said that Brock couldn’t “work” (believe me, I’ve come across them), but he’s intimidating based on his size and power 1st and foremost. I think Swagger is better suited as an Angle-type wrestler, who can out-wrestle his opponents, bringing the power when he needs to, not because it’s his selling point.
I think Scott’s point, because I think the same way, is to just turn Swagger into a legit wrestling badass…although I guess that applies to Kurt as well. There was one match he had with Cena, I think it was the Draft episode of Raw, where he held his own and got that superstar reaction from the crowd. So he’s got a chance in my book…he’s got the look and he’s got the skills in the ring. He also a pretty good charisma about him…he’s one of the few midcard guys that just appear to be a star.
Has it ever been confirmed by ANYONE that Umaga was the planned gimmick for Joe?
Joe said it in an interview. And tone down the “I’m smarter than everyone” crap or I’m gonna bring down the ban hammer pretty soon.
Get it ichiBAN.
OH TAG~!
the lulz never start.
Isn’t Joe awfully small to be a monster heel in WWE?
How tall IS Joe, anyway? I remember Tenay goofing up and saying he was 6′6″ or something during his debut, but if he’s only 6′1″ or so it’s hard to turn yourself into a monster heel.
Look at Swagger – he’s HUGE, but he doesn’t look all that big in WWE. If he was in TNA, he’d look like Matt Morgan.
Now correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Joe and Cena train together at UPW in California? If Joe were to go to WWE, and he were put over as monster heel couldn’t they use that to develop a killer feud with Cena…He’s at jealous at the amount of success Cena’s had while having 1/4 the talent…which is actually true to begin with.
OR, I think Joe could certainly pull off the surfer gimmick talked about in the Raw rant.
Either way Joe needs to get out of TNA ASAP….along with Daniels, Styles, Sabin, Shelly, Lethel….and the list goes on and on and on….
It’s true he’s got 4 times the talent…not that he’s jealous…just to clarify
Yeah they should all go back to making 50 bucks a night in whatever indy is running the high school gym that week.
BOOM
I’d work in indies for $5 bucks a night if I meant I didn’t have to worry about my career path being determined by Vince Fucking Russo!
Well that’s one way to go about things.
Me? If perpetual things-on-a-pole matches took me from a world of sharing filthy motel rooms (and even filthier ring rats) with 5 or so other guys a night to home ownership, retirement savings and greater potential to meet the type of women who appreciate that sort of thing, I’d be all for it.
I still don’t see where all the Joe love comes from.
He’s pretty mobile for a fat guy, I’ll definitely admit that and he’s not BAD in the ring but he’s nothing really special either. On the mic he’s hit or miss at BEST.
And he’s only going to get fatter as he ages, that’s how it works for everyone and Samoans in particular are not known for their slim builds.
At least he does look like he could throw a punch which is more than I can say for Punk, the other golden child of the ROH crowd.
If you look back on the Joe/Styles/Daniels series, Joe’s year plus ROH title reign, his match with Kobashi from around 05 (?), you’ll start to get where all the love for Joe comes from….whether you agree or disagree is at your discretion.
Maybe one day I’ll look it up. I generally avoid Styles though, he’s too small and flip floppy for my tastes. Once a wrestler busts out a corkscrew or springboard anything that’s usually when I stop paying attention. Not every time, but usually.
Admittedly I’ve never seen any ROH so I can’t comment one way or the other on anything done there but since coming to TNA I just don’t the big deal.
I do think TNA is a better fit for him than WWE would likely be because on the whole they have smaller guys making him stand out a little bit more.
If Russo was in WWE still he would bring in Joe to feud with Umaga because “he took the gimmick I was suppose to have” – it would be a the worst thing ever.
Also Swagger should be built as the perfect mix of brock/kurt – the agressive side of brock and the whiny side of kurt that blamed every loss on someone else.
If Russo would be in WWE, the shows and stories would be at least not half as boring as they are today, with lack of every sense of a longtime booking and creativity.
Yeah, well, as long as Smackdown (and Superstars – REALLY good show this week) continue to kick ass, who gives a damn if Raw sucks. Boring Orton / Batista doesn’t invalidate the fact that Jeff and Edge (and Rey, and Jericho, and…) are kicking ass every week.
It’s like people who were complaining about the WWE product during the Katie Vick saga when Smackdown was awesome every week – just because one show’s bad doesn’t mean the entire company is. From the sounds of it, there’s a really great angle (one I’ve been waiting a while on) prior to the main event tonight….
Smackdown is only better, because they have the better wrestlers.
But if they put too many good Matches on SD, who should pay for the same matches on a PPV? Why should I pay for Edge vs Hardy, when I get a 20 minute match for nothing on SD?
People should know Samoans have been treated well by the McMahons for years. I think Joe would be pushed to main event in the WWE. If anything Samoans have gotten big pushes in the WWE.