The SmarK 24/7 Rant for MSG - March 17 1985
So this is of course two weeks before the first ever Wrestlemania, which shows you the kind of drawing power they used to have in MSG.
- Taped from New York.
- Your hosts are Gorilla & Mean Gene.
Rocky Johnson v. Charlie Fulton
Rocky uses some fancy footwork to hold a hammerlock, but Fulton rolls him up, so Rocky reverses to a headscissors. Fulton tries a wristlock and Johnson reverses out of it and does the goofy dancing stuff to chase Fulton out of the ring. Back in, Fulton pounds away in the corner, but Rocky finishes with a sunset flip at 3:47. Wasn't much of an opener. I hear Johnson's kid did some good stuff in the sport, though. 1/2*
Barry O v. Rene Goulet
Speaking of those eclipsed by their offspring (or relatives thereof), Barry's nephew Randy had a tad more success. They trade armbars to start and Orton works a headscissors. This is boring, so here's a random fun fact about Barry Orton: He tried for a movie career after getting blacklisted from wrestling, and changed his name to Barrymore Barlow. I kid you not, look it up on imdb.com. This shitty match continues unabated with Goulet escaping Barry's paralyzing array of headlocks (if you want to know where Randy got it from, look no further) and getting his clawhold, using Orton's mop of hair to keep him down. Orton's faux-Ricky Morton babyface look here is something to behold, as he looks like an aging hair metal singer rather than a teen idol. A body slam is his big comeback move, and that gets two. Powerslam gets two. Goulet takes him down with a headlock to end that awesome torrent of offense and the crowd boos the crap out of this. Barry comes back with an atomic drop, but runs into a knee and Goulet gets two. Barry comes back with a small package and the ref is so sick of this stupid match that he fast-counts to end it at 8:48. Way to go, Dee Snyder! 1/4*
Jim Neidhart v. SD Jones
Boy, they're really stacking this card up and down, aren't they? Neidhart pounds him down to start, but Jones grabs a headlock. Neidhart accuses him of pulling his beard, but SD gives him a hiptoss and works on an armbar. Neidhart tries slamming out, but Jones hangs on. Anvil clotheslines out as Gorilla gets on his weird high horse about that move being an "automatic disqualification" like he did at Wrestlemania III. Gorilla could have some really weird beefs. Neidhart pounds on him in the corner and goes to a chinlock. SD makes the comeback, but walks into a powerslam and gets pinned at 6:50. Well, he'd have another chance to do better against King Kong Bundy two weeks later. 1/2*
King Kong Bundy v. Jose Luis Rivera
Speak of the devil. Bundy has a cape here, making him look like Homer Simpson in the episode where he gets really fat. Big splash gets two, but Bundy picks him up. Now what's the legality of picking someone up if he asks for the five count? Like if he gets four and then picks him up, did he still win the match? Avalanche and Big Fat Elbow finishes at 2:22. Well, Rivera did better than SD at Wrestlemania. DUD
Piper's Pit! Roddy relates the tale of St. Patrick's Day and how they used to chase the snakes out of Ireland. Is that where the whole Whacking Day gag came from? Piper brings out Paul Orndorff as backup in case Mr. T gets in his face. So we've got Piper/Orton/Orndorff on one side and T/Hogan/Snuka on the other and you can see where this is going. Piper, twitchier than usual here, talks trash and shows a series of paintings which depict Mr. T in various states of injury after the Wrestlemania main event, but even donning a Mohawk wig isn't enough to trigger a brawl, as T keeps his cool and breaks the pictures instead. This was the hardest of the hard sells.
David Sammartino v. Matt Borne
David gets some quality shoving in, but Borne hammers on him and follows with a belly to belly suplex out of the corner. He drops a knee and goes to a chinlock, but Sammartino slugs him down and backdrops him out of the corner. And now David goes to the chinlock. And then Borne chinlocks him right back. I feel so sorry for this crowd tonight. Finally they slug it out and Borne misses a blind charge, allowing David to suplex him for two. He goes up, but Borne slams him off for two. Another slam is reversed by Sammartino into a cradle for the pin at 8:25. David was just not very good. 1/2*
Andre the Giant, Junkyard Dog & Jimmy Snuka v. John Studd, Ken Patera & Jesse Ventura
This has got potential. JYD backdrops Patera after some heel stalling, then Andre comes in and rams Patera and Studd's heads together. Big boot for Patera and Dog is right there with headbutts, as Patera gets the hell out of there. Finally back in, JYD gets trapped in the heel corner and choked out by Ventura, triggering the big brawl. After order is restored, Dog is your face-in-peril, and Jesse pounds on him in the corner in between posturing. That doesn't last long, as JYD gets pissed and fights Ventura off, then brings Snuka in for more abuse of the Body. Snuka drops a fist off the middle rope, but Jesse uses his trademark THUMB TO THE EYE~! More cheating from the heels and Studd comes in for the slam, which gets two. Studd and Patera switch off with bearhugs on Snuka and hold him in the corner. Hot tag Andre, however, and he goes for the slam on Studd, but Jesse comes in to save. That goes…badly for him. Andre kicks the shit out of Jesse and the Superfly splash finishes at 10:05. You knew that Jesse was taking the fall here, although he was pretty tremendous with his overblown antics. **
Ricky Steamboat v. Terry Gibbs
Gibbs attacks to start and pounds on Ricky, but gets backdropped out of the corner. Gibbs hides in the ropes and we get a rather long stalling sequence before Gibbs dumps Steamboat and pounds him on the apron. Back in, Gibbs gets a cheapshot in the corner and a slam for two. Atomic drop follows, but Steamboat fires back with chops and finishes with the high cross at 4:30. Not much here. 1/2*
Intercontinental title, lumberjack match: Greg Valentine v. Tito Santana.
Valentine attacks to start, but Tito sends the fists a'flyin and Hammer retreats to the floor. The heels are none too quick to help him back in, but luckily Ricky Steamboat is there to set things right. Back in, Tito catches a boot and hits him with an atomic drop into a kneelift, and Greg runs away again, where JYD sends him right back in. Tito hammers away in the corner, but Valentine takes him down with his own atomic drop, but Tito just keeps on firing away. Tito rings the ears (which Mean Gene calls all AWA old school as a "skullcracker"), and knees him down with some surprisingly vicious stuff, into an elbow off the second rope for two. Valentine makes a run for it, right into the face side, and they carry him back in the hard way. Tito slugs away again, but gets too fired up and runs into a knee for two. Valentine takes over in his usual methodical style, dropping the Hammer for two. He starts working on the leg and tries rolling him into a half-crab, but Tito slugs out of it. And now it's Titos' turn to get tossed to the floor and back in by the heels. Back in, Valentine hits him with a forearm off the middle rope and sets up for the figure-four, but Tito reverses for two. Valentine levels him with a forearm to win a slugfest, then drops an elbow for two. Greg slugs away in the corner, but takes a step back and that allows Tito to drop down to his back and monkey-lift him into the turnbuckle to come back. They slug it out and Valentine goes down, but Tito won't let him run away. Suplex gets two and he drops a knee on Valentine's head and tries his own figure-four, but Hammer flips out of it and then runs away. The faces chase him back in, and he runs right into a forearm from Tito, and THAT sets up the figure-four for real. Sadly, Jimmy Hart distract the ref, allowing John Studd to drag Valentine to the ropes, and Tito gets all distracted. Valentine attacks him and they slug it out, but Tito collapses and Valentine falls on top for the pin to retain at 15:07. Not the upper echelon for them or anything, but it's always a good combination. ***1/4
This was not exactly high quality stuff. The Valentine-Tito match certainly wasn't worth sitting through the other 90 minutes to get to. Take a pass.
Tags: 24/7, Greg Valentine, MSG, Tito Santana, Wrestlemania, WWE
Has there ever been another matchup where BOTH guys were masters of the Figure 4? Or any other hold besides these:
Rock vs. Booker T [Rock Bottom vs. Bookend]
Sting vs. Fake Sting [Scorpion Deathlock]
Chris Benoit vs. Bret Hart [Sharpshooter]
Undertaker vs. Fake Undertaker vs. Kane [Tombstone Piledriver]
There has to be some sort of Powerbomb match [Kevin Nash vs. ?] but I can’t think of it right now.
You know the Scorpion Deathlock is the same thing as the sharpshooter, right? Even part of the hype for Hart v. Sting was who did the finisher better. Plus Benoit never really used it as a regular finisher, especially when he was up against Hart.
Kevin Nash took on Sid at the ‘99 Starrcade, in an actual powerbomb match where you could only win by hitting the powerbomb. Of course, since it was the Russo era, Nash won by not hitting a powerbomb.
There is also Vader v. Sid from the October ‘96 IYH, where both guys had the powerbomb as the finisher.
In WM 3, Billy Jack Haynes v. Hercules was a battle over who had the better full nelson.
I am sure there is a lot more because that was a pretty common way to start a feud. If there were two guys with a same finisher in an organization, it is likely they ended up feuding against each other. Usually, a guy would adopt the finisher as a way to provoke the other guys. For example, Tito started using the figure four during his feud with Valentine in order to upset him.
I also seem to recall an RVD v Eddie Guerrero feud where both guys tried to finish with the five-star frog splash.
Was it a one-shot deal? (ducking)
That Sid/Nash stipulation reminds me of when Triple H took on Big Show in a “Chokeslam Challenge” match on the show before Unforgiven 99, where you had to chokeslam your opponent to win the match. That is certainly a much better idea for a guy’s “signature match” than Kane or Undertaker ever had. Kane’s was the Inferno Match, which was basically designed so that only he could lose, while Undertaker’s various Buried Alive and Casket Matches were set up so that his opponents could bring reinforcements and fight him 10 on 1 with no fear of disqualification.
Back to my original point, I know Triple H was unable to chokeslam the Big Show to win that match, but I do recall his future brother-in-law Shane once chokeslamming the Big Show. Of course, he did have 4 or 5 other guys assisting him, but it was still a pretty cool visual.
I wasn’t aware that Bret Hart and Sting ever faced off in a 1-on-1 matchup. WCW was so bad at one point that it was unwatchable for me.
Ric Flair fought Tito Santana a few times when he first came to the WWF (they had a pretty good match on the “Summerslam Spectacular” free show in 1992). I’m not sure if he ever had a one-on-one match with Greg Valentine, but they did face off in the 1992 Royal Rumble, where Greg put the hold on Ric.
In the NWA, pretty much everybody put Flair in a figure-four leglock. Even jobber Mike Jackson locked Flair in a figure-four on a World Championship Wrestling match that Scott reviewed a few months back.
You can kinda give the figure four vs. figure four to Greg Valentine vs. Ronnie Garvin at the 90 Royal Rumble. The angle had Garvin using a shinguard to protect him from Valentine’s figure four and somehow it reverses the pain to him. Also, any matches with Valentine vs. Flair would count.
The RR90 match is a good one (submissions only), but the shin guard didn’t reverse the pain, it just neutralised it. There’s a great bit where Hammer slaps it on, and Garvin just laughs at him, but Hammer is never in pain without something else causing it (and Hammer wore a shin guard for some time as well, although I think he’d stopped by the time this match rolled around). For the feud, Garvin was using a finisher he called the “reverse figure 4″, which was basically a Sharpshooter.
For other holds, didn’t Owen use the Sharpshooter as well?
Hammer started wearing a shin guard to make his figure four more effective. Garvin wore the shin guard to block the effect. They both wore the shin guard for the Royal Rumble match, although it did nothing to stop the pain of Garvin’s “Hammer Jammer” move.
Ron Garvin never gets his just due for being the man who introduced the Sharpshooter to the WWF. At least he occasionally gets acknowledged with Orton’s Garvin Stomp.
Did Garvin introduce it or did the Red Rooster use it in his heel run (Cock of the Walk or something like that), before switching to the Chicken Wing when he turned face?
Ah, the “Heartbreaker” vs. the “Hammer Jammer.”
Good times.
It’s crazy how hot they were in the NY market before their product become over-saturated. Between 1980 and 1991 they did anywhere from 8 to 12 shows a year in MSG. It really took a dive in 1992 and stayed at about half it’s original clip since then. I’m sure MSG became much more expensive to rent in the mid to late 1990s when the Knicks became a hot team again.
Scott, any chance you review the 12/15/97 Nitro with Bret Hart’s debut? That was surreal to watch, but one of the most disappointing debuts ever.
If Vince McMahon had signed a big name from WCW, he would’ve made it a moment to remember.
“If Vince McMahon had signed a big name from WCW, he would’ve made it a moment to remember.”
And then he’d bury him about two weeks to two months later.
Yeah he’d come out and get a few big segments and maybe a hot feud to start. Then he would be fighting a woman for the IC title 2 months later, which he would later drop cleanly to HHH even though HHH was already world champion and didnt need another belt.
LOL, because Chris Jericho has had such a terrible career in the WWF/E. Hahha, good stuff. Two World title runs, beating Austin & Rocky in the same night, one of the biggest debuts ever, main eventing a stadium WrestleMania and mainstream crossover that has led him to host TV shows and be prominently featured on VH1. Yeah, I’m sure Jericho sits up at night cursing Vince McMahon for how horribly treated he was.
Yeah I wouldn’t say this is something that Vince has done any better, it always seems to end the same way with the guy ending up shuttled down the card after an impressive debut.
Malakai, what does Triple H have to do with anything? I’m talking about this happening in 1997 or 1998 when the war started gaining steam and Triple H was wrestling IC title matches. Had someone like Kevin Nash jumped to the WWF, McMahon would’ve made it huge.