Scott,
Thanks for posting my email on TDK - have another ranking question for the blog: Where does The Dark Knight matchup as far as great movie sequels? This could be more of a list question so I might be wording this wrong. If I were to make a list of Great Franchise Sequels, I'd list them as follows in no particular -
01.) Empire Strikes Back - Star Wars Franchise
02.) Aliens - Alien Franchise
03.) Lethal Weapon 2
04.) Terminator 2
05.) The Matrix Reloaded - Matrix Franchise
06.) Spiderman 2
07.) The Two Towers - Lord of the Rings Franchise
08.) X2: XMen United
09.) The Dark Knight - Batman Franchise
10.) The Godfather II
My Top 4 would be listed as follows -
1.) Empire Strikes Back - the epitome of what a sequel should be: bigger, badder, bolder. You can tell just by how Darth Vader's helmet glistens in ESB that Lucas said "Ok, this is what I REALLY want to do..." We were given more story and this film was carried on the back of Harrison Ford. Also, Darth Vader really underscored why he was one of Hollywood's greatest villains. IMO, this is arguably the standard bearer that all sequels should be compared to...
2.) The Dark Knight - A fantastic crime drama. Everybody in this film hit a home run w/ their performances and I really wonder if Nolan will EVER be able to make a film better than this. The best Batman movie and the best comic book adaptation brought to cinema. *My biggest question for this email is how do you think it matches up against ESB?*
3.) Spiderman 2 - this film is what really underscored why Spidey fans love Peter Parker's world so much: the everyday problems that we all go through and how having another responsibility can complicate life so much.
4.) The Matrix Reloaded - IMO, the best scifi action film EVER made. This movie gave me everything I wanted. W/ ESB as a template, they expanded more on the backstory of the war between humans and machines ; we saw ZION upclose and personified; and we saw some of the best fight and chase scenes that every other action/ scifi film has tried to copy in some variation; and we got a great cliffhanger ending. A true trendsetter for the early 2000's and beyond...
That's my list, what's yours...
Oh man, you're so gonna get roasted by the blog for some of that. Godfather Part II won the freakin' OSCAR and you'd put Matrix Rebloated over it?
Speaking of the Dark Knight, rather ironic that it's going to pass Star Wars on the all-time list the same weekend that Lucas beats at that dead house one more time with The Clone Wars.
Anyway, Godfather Part II is one of the greatest movies, of any genre, ever made and is easily my #1 pick for sequels as well. Dark Knight is all kinds of awesome, but Empire Strikes Back is still above it at #2 because there's a reason why people say "such and such is the Empire Strikes Back of the trilogy". Then I'd put Dark Knight. And why is there never any love for James Bond? From Russia With Love completely defined the Bond franchise and added all the elements that came to be associated with the character from then on.
Tags: Cinema, Stupid lists
Uhhhh, dude…Lethal Weapon 2 over Godfather II-wow, that guy can’t be serious.
I say Godfather II is by far the best, then i’d rank T2 second. In fact I prefer Godfather II and T2 to the originals, and I love the originals. Dark Knight is top 10 for sure. I really liked Matrix Reloaded but I can’t see it being one of the best sequels ever. I can’t say I agree with any list that puts GF2 as 10th.
Also this is way off topic but I just went to watch some 24/7 and they announced that next months theme is Forever Flair! Whoooooooooo! I love this channel.
Um maybe you should read the list more thoroughly next time. The first list isn’t his actual list of favorite sequels, the second one is.
It really depends on what you’re looking for. I agree that Godfather II was a monster, but so was the original whereas X-Men II while not perfect was leaps better than the first X-Men.
I’d go for: Indiana Jones and the temple of doom and evil dead 2. I think Indy was underrated in its day but now it holds up awesome because it’s less Nazified.
That list has got to be a parody.
The Matrix was good. It’s two sequels were total dogshit.
I don’t think most people bring up James Bond because the movies don’t really play like sequels or like they’re part of a series. Each movie is self-containted and stands on it’s own. Same with the Star Trek movies.
I actually don’t like the Godfather movies *ducks*
I know, I know… not sure why, but I’m guessing growing up with a father who was obsessed with the movies kind of tired me out on them. I never really cared for Star Wars either.
My favorites are…
-Terminator 2
-Dark Knight (might go down later as my favorite movie ever, still kind of in the honeymoon period of seeing it)
-Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade
-Back to the Future III
-Superman II (even though I’m of the opinion that Chris Reeve sucked as Superman and the franchise as a whole was incredibly overrated)
It insists on itself Lois.
I feel that part 2 of a trilogy isn’t much of a ’sequel’, to be honest, and the same with things like Bond movies, which are really a series of movies about the same character rather than sequels as such.
Movies like Terminator 2, Aliens and Godfather 2 come to mind for me because they were specifically sequels and thus stand-alone movies, rather than a continuance of a series/trilogy.
I think that you can’t really attack someone for not having a certain film on their personal best list, especially if you’re comparing movies from vastly diferent eras. The age at which you see a film can drastically alter the opinion someone has on it. For example, say you saw the Matrix when you were 16 and it was the most awesome thing you’d ever seen. Obviously you can’t wait until the sequel comes out and you’ll be the first in line to see it. To some of that group, it may come off as a huge disappointment because of how much they built it up in their minds, whereas others have spent so long looking forward to it being awesome that it will be awesome to them no matter what anyone else thinks.
I grew up on the first Star Wars trilogy, and I was quite anxiously awaiting the prequel trilogy when it arrived. Obviously after loving the first 3 films for nearly 20 years, the new ones never quite measured up to that level for me, but I also never really developed any of the hatred for them that many fans of the original trilogy have. Sure, I can see some of the problems with them when others point them out, and I won’t argue that they are the greatest films ever or anything, but I’ll always feel that they are somewhat special just because of how long I was waiting for them, regardless of whether or not they met my expectations.
As a counterpoint, I also loved the first two Terminator movies and X-Men movies, and I found both of their third installments very disappointing. (X3 moreso than T3) Spiderman and the Matrix however, I didn’t really have any problems personally with their third movies. I don’t really know why, that’s just how they hit me.
I still say that Superman II is an awesome movie and despite the dated effects, it still holds up quite well.
Although a sequel to an episode on the show and not the first movie, SS: The Wrath of Khan is up there.
Toy Story 2 is one of the best animated movies I’ve ever seen and it surpassed the original in every way.
Now obviously these lists are all subjective; but I really have to put someones movie tastes in doubt when they list The Matrix 2 over Aliens, and Godfather II…IMO.
The argument that you are younger and “don’t remember” GII that well is ignorant. Go back, rent/download them, watch them and then make an educated choice. There were great movies before 1980.
Which Superman II version is better, the Donner or Lester version?
That’s a great question. Funny enough, I haven’t sought out the Donner “recut” version. Actually forgot about it until now…lol.
Anyone here seen the Donner cut and can offer some insight versus the theater release?
The Donner version is better. One thing that gets me with the Lester version is that it is never explained how Superman got his power back. The Donner explains it, tying it in within the appearence of new Marlon Brando footage as Jor-El, which ws cut out of the Lester version because Brando dues the Salkinds (the producers).
To correct my error, Brando sued the Salkinds which scrapped his entire performance from the Lester version.
The Lester version is great, but I think the Donner one is more complete and a comapnion piece to the first one (since most of Donner’s II was filmed at the same time as Superman I).
I agree w/ Whitefish that the Donner version is better (although I’ve always enjoyed the Lester version). They do recycle the ending from Superman I, and that poses some inconsistencies, but Jor-El’s presence makes this much stronger.
I guess the broadcast version overseas would show Zod shooting down a portrait of Nixon with an uzi. Unfortunately, that’s not included on this Donner release.
The poor guy said they were in no particular order!
Mea Culpa about GFII, I almost forgot about it. I tried to stay w/in a certain theme as far as action/ sci fi films for my top 4 (sort of like my Mt. Rushmore) b/c that’s what seems to spur all of us internet geeks as far as what films we like.
In defending the Matrix Reloaded, I will agree that the dancefest at the beginning takes away from the film – but those action sequences w/ the Burly Brawl and the chase of doom just blew me away and I don’t think any other film as far as scifi has been able to match the imagination and work put into those portions…
I never understood the fanboy love for Empire Strikes Back. I remember nothing from that movie. How can anyone prefer that to Return of the Jedi. The last scene with Vader/Luke/Palpatine is better than anything in the first two movies!
You’re joking right?
I’d like to know what year you were born Alex, because if it’s between 1972 and 1980, then it helps prove the point I was making above. I too always liked ROTJ better than ESB just because I was a kid when I first saw ROTJ, so I didn’t have any problem with the Ewoks. I thought those parts were cool, and I even had my very own stuffed Wicket. I think ROTJ is a much easier film to follow, especially to younger viewers or more casual fans, while Empire would be much more appealing to especially hardcore fans of the series. As I’ve grown up I’ve come to appreciate more the darker tone of Empire and the power of not having a happy ending, but ROTJ will always have a place in my heart just because I lovd it as a kid.
Sorry to reply to my own comment, but I should make clear that I don’t only like ROTJ for the Ewoks. The Vader/Luke/Palpatine climax that Alex referenced was of course truly awesome, and intensely terrifying even when I watch it today. I also love the entire Jabba’s palace sequence, and the end of the movie with the battle taking place on 3 different fronts. (although I still don’t get how that second Death Star got built so fast when the first one took like 20 years)
Ewoks rocked – i was about 7 when I saw it in the cinema for the first time and I loved it. I prefer it to Empire as well but then I am pretty sure I am in the minority.
Superman 2 is great, loved Donner version but to be fair I loved the lester version as well – Zod makes that film either way.
Highlander 2 has to be the best though – just kidding – that was true garbage.
ST2:wrath of khan is top drawer, Terminator 2 and Aliens would have to round out my list. Oh Rocky 2 as well.
I was born in 78, and saw Empire in the theater (not that I claim to remember it from then). It is today my favorite of the trilogy, but I was super into ROTJ when it came out, and had all the toys. I even later had my ewoks wrestle each other (with names like Paplo the Giant, etc.). I am a dork.
RE: Highlander 2 has to be the best though – just kidding – that was true garbage.
You know I had a case of “The Quickening” last year, but the doctor gave me some antibiotics and it cleared right up.
Sadly not Sean Connery’s worst film *coughAvengerscough*coughMedicineMancough*
Although it was the least good of the OT, I don’t get all the putting down of ROTJ by some people. It did what it was meant to do, and I was happy.
FYI, the Ewok argument is now moot as they are no longer the lamest creatures in the Lucasverse (onesa guessa what eesa theesa answer forsa thatsa onesa
)
I was born in 1980. I didnt see Star Wars, Empire, or Return of the Jedi until after I was dragged out to the theatre to see Phantom Menace in….1998?
So you don’t remember the battles on ice planet hoth? Luke’s training with Yoda? The City in The Clouds?
[spoiler alert]You don’t remember “Luke, I am your father?”[/]
Empire Strikes Back is the only entry I can sit thru without fastforwarding anything, ewoks never really did it for me.
Actually…
[spoiler alert]…it’s “No. I am your father.”[/]
All of you are forgetting one of the greatest sci-fi/horror movies ever made: “Bride of Frankenstein”
Thank you for mentioning this MASSIVE oversight. I’d also forgotten about it until you mentioned it, but it’s a terrific film and easily up there with the other films already listed by everyone.
Sequels that didn’t suck:
1. Godfather Part II
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. Terminator 2
4. Spiderman 2 and 3
5. Star Trek II
6. Superman II
7. Rocky II and III
8. X2
Sequels that did suck:
1. Caddyshack 2
2. The Exorcist II
3. Blues Brothers 2000
4. Staying Alive
5. Star Trek V
6. Highlander II
7. Beverly Hills Cop III
8. The Next Karate Kid
Good list; but I have to questions Spidey 3. Just not on the level of any of the other movies on the list. Rocky 3, guilty please, but good?
sorry, guilty PLEASURE.
And Rocky 4 – horrible extended MTV music video basically but i love it. DRAGO… DRAGOOO from the mountaintop , sheer class.
I like III, not as much as II, but III is great.
Rocky IV is a 90 minute music video. Sorry to say, but Rocky V is better than IV.
God no! Rocky Five is horrible on EVERY level, four at least had awesome soundtrack and an unstoppable Russian on steroids. Its bad but enjoyable whereas 5 is just torture to sit through – its so bad Stallone had to come back and make another and then not acknowledge 5 in the story!
I just saw the first three Star Wars films for the first time when they were all playing on HBO last year at various times and I also like Jedi better than Empire.
I’m actually kinda fond of “Die Hard with a Vengeance.” If you were to ask me how someone should play the Riddler in an upcoming Batman movie, I say just watch this.
I think the Rush Hour films are all kinda equal to one another.
Same goes with the Evil Dead films.
So much to argue with here, but i like people’s points. I was born in 1980, so i was never able to watch the GFs or Star Wars movies in theaters. But damnit if the Godfather and Star Wars (The original one) aren’t two of my favorite films of all time. That being said, in terms of sequels, i believe Empire is one of the best sequels of all time. And GF II, while good, is in my mind, not as good as the original.
Now, in my opinion, there have been a few sequels which were so damn good, they made the first movie look not as great afterwards. Those ones i believe are:
(In no particular order):
1. T2
2. The Dark Knight
3. X2
4. Spider-man 2 (Which before the Dark Knight came out, was my favorite comic book movie ever).
5. Aliens
6. Bourne Supremacy
7. Evil Dead 2 (just cause it was more fun).
And in no shape or form does any list i ever make include the words, Matrix, reloaded, or revolutions.
Oh yeah…and the Donner version of Superman 2 maybe be superior in terms of story telling and actually making sense…but its the Lester version that i used to watch every week on Laser Disc when i was younger.
I like both Superman II’s…was a bit let down that the Donner one didn’t have an ending proper, but that couldn’t have been helped for obvious reasons.
Bryan Singer must have been pissed when he got around to watching that, as if you take the Donner cut as canon, the direction Superman Returns tried to go into doesn’t make as much sense (if Supes turned back time again, does that mean he DIDN’T sleep with Lois? Hence, no Super-kid? [have to use a non-lawsuit violating name there])
I’ll try to list ones that I haven’t seen mentioned (in no particular order):
-Dawn of the Dead
-Sanjuro
-Britannia Hospital
-The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
-The Colour of Money
The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly is a great film. While it’s considered part of The Man With No Name trilogy, is it really a sequel? Is Eastwood playing the same character in all three flicks (Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, Good, Bad, and the Ugly)? It’s debatable, but still a classic.
I don’t know how you can place the Matrix Reloaded over Godfather II. I friggin love Godfather II so much. In my eyes my top three sequels of all time go: Godfather II, Terminator II, Dark Knight
um…Silence of the Lambs? Road Warrior?