FINALLY after the gods aligned against me all week, I got a chance to see it tonight. And I mean, it was no sure thing either, because the showings at one major theater here in Edmonton were all sold out hours in advance (which we didn't find out until we got there to buy tickets 90 minutes before the show), and then the IMAX shows at West Edmonton Mall were all sold out, so finally we settled for the regular late show because fuck if I was going to end my vacation without seeing this movie. And even then we had to drop our friends off at their house and then circle back and get to the show on time, which we did with 20 minutes to spare, and even then we had to sit on the side of the theater to find two seats together.
But it was worth it. Oh yes was it ever.
Discussion and spoilers follow the break.
OK, here's a e-mail from frequent contributor jroc133 detailing his thoughts, from which I will add my own.
Don't know if you'll post this on the web, but want to give you my thoughts:
1.) My biggest hangup is the fight scenes - I understood what Nolan was doing in the 1st one by not making Batman a total martial arts badass and making the scenes hard to follow, but I wanted more crispness. When you see it you may disagree, but this is the first major disappointment for me (in context, it is minor...)
2.) Whose next in the sequel? I'll describe it more below, but where will they go in Batman 3? I liked the fact that they introduced Harvey Dent in this film and the fact that they finally gave him the onscreen air time and importance that he deserved. In Batman Forever, Tommy Lee Jones was a perfect choice for the character (imo); however, Schumacher made Jim Carrey the heat machine by focusing more on The Riddler and less on Tommy as Two-Face. You will agree I'm sure that Two-Face has more depth and Tommy could've carried the film more, but this film for me is exactly why I'm so pissed at Joel Schumacher in how he almost destroyed this franchise and how he completely mishandled the character (Batman mythology) w/ over 50 years of backstory to choose from. Yes, Nolan used Year One, The Long Halloween, and Dark Victory as templates - but why couldn't Schumacher have done the same thing 10 years earlier - have the same insight and present it w/ this kind of intensity? That's why I will never watch a film by this guy for as long as I live... Sorry, got off on a tangent - but back to my original point: Two-Face (played by Aaron Eckhart) has to come back in Batman 3 b/c no other villain will be able to carry the movie or challenge Batman as effectively as Harvey. They can introduce Robin. They can introduce Catwoman, but the central antagonist MUST be Two-Face...
Those are my hangups (one very minor b/c the action overall was fantastic and the other is speculation b/c I want to enjoy the eventual sequel as much, if not more than I enjoyed this one...); but I still give this film 3 and 3/4 stars rating on a 4 star scale...
Now for my speculation:
3.) It is too soon to bring back The Joker.
a.) Tell me who will have the balls to step in after Heath Ledger's performance and even attempt to do just as well or surpass what you will see from this portrayal? Looking at Ledger, you don't see Brokeback Mountain or 10 Things I Hate About You - you see the fucking Joker. When Jack Nicholson played this role, as controversial as it was - it was still memorable. You can be critical all you want, but Nicholson's performance was still memorable b/c there was some level of entertainment. There's only 3 people that I can think of who may be able to pull this off -
1.) Jim Carrey - you run into the same problem as Jack Nicholson, its Jim Carrey playing the Joker
2.) Edward Norton - Can he be as intense and cerebral? I think so, but you will still see Edward Norton...
3.) Adrien Brody - my pick b/c he can play the Joker w/out making you think of him as the actor playing the part, but can he deliver the goods as well as Ledger?
4.) Two-Face has to be the lead antagonist - over the years Batman has a Big Three as far as villains who challenge him the most: Joker, Ra's Al Ghul, and Two-Face. Ra's Al Ghul has already been used in Batman Begins, The Joker pushed Batman to the limit in this film, now expand on those limits w/ the painful dichotomy of facing off against someone that Batman once considered to taking up the mantle of saving Gotham. Like I said above, you can introduce Robin and Catwoman (Catwoman being very interesting as the love interest); however, Two-Face is the only foe that I see that really make viewers and audiences stuck to their seat to see where things will go. Riddler, Penguin, Poison Ivy, and Mr. Freeze are all B-Level villains. If you want to make even more money, my choice is Two-Face.
Went off on a tangent, but I hope you enjoy it when you get the chance...
Well, I think the sequel is clearly Catwoman as the main baddie. Who in their right mind would WANT to play the Joker and try to follow that act?
More generally, I loved this movie from start to finish. The Joker's magic trick, the social experiment on the boats, the slow descent into madness of Harvey Dent, it was all just great, great stuff. As others have said, not just a great superhero movie, but a great MOVIE. I think Iron Man was still more effective at translating a comic book onto the screen, but this one created a tone so suspenseful and foreboding that I thought Jodi was going to break my arm from clutching it. Nolan's creepy music cues when something bad was going to happen were some of the scariest stuff I've ever experienced in a PG-13 movie, not to mention the awesome Two-Face makeup job. Sure, it showed how perfect he'd be to play Jonah Hex, but at least they stole from the best source. The best part is that you can pick any character and relate to them because they're all incredibly well-written. You can see exactly why Dent does what he does, you can see why Gordon acts as he does, you can see how tormented Batman has become...just spectacular writing. You can even empathize with the Joker a bit in his quest just to break all the rules for the sake of it.
I'll say it now: Something is seriously wrong if this isn't at least nominated for Best Picture and if Heath Ledger doesn't win a posthumous acting Oscar for it. The facial tics and lip-smacking were some of the creepiest shit I've ever seen in a movie, maybe because it was just so off-putting.
Tags: Cinema
Do you geeks actually shoot a load in the theater during the movie or do you wait to get home before T.C.B.?
I’m curious. Did you sit at your computer screen, constantly refreshing this page for the last several days, just so you could make that insightful comment as soon as Scott posted his thoughts on the movie? Not that there’s anything wrong with that, as I don’t have a life either, but there’s got to be something somewhere in the vast internet world that you would find more entertaining, doesn’t there?
No. I don’t care that people liked the movie. I just crack up at all the comic book geeks and wrestling “smarks” that always think they know the way things should be. It’s so funny the fantasy booking that goes on.
Let’s combine both worlds. Next movie is Two Face, HHH and Hogan battling Batman and Samoa Joe, and the final scene is Chris Benoit rising from the dead to save Batman while some hip indy band plays in the background wearing ROH shirts.
So someone is a geek because they enjoyed this Batman movie? Heh, must be a lot of geeks in the country since it had the largest opening of any movie in history.
Meanwhile, your posting at a wrestling blog site. Think about it.
Anywho, I fucking loved everything about this movie and I like the “hard edge” that they’ve developed in the first two movies and would hate to see that wasted with Catwoman. We got no indication….. ***spoilers***
that Dent is dead at the end. I see it as a ruse to not show the public what he’s become. There’s your 3rd movie villain.
I have heard Nolan say that he has no interest in doing any Batman movie that includes Robin. His vision of the character concentrates on the isolation that the lead character’s chosen life entails; the end of TDK certainly seems to be moving toward further isolation of the Batman as he will now be seriously hunted by the authorities. His faux life as Bruce Wayne is, if anything, more isolating.
I’m not sure who would make for the best villain for the sequel; Given the realistic tone of Nolan’s films so far, a lesser villain with a more realistic (or at least reality-based) backstory seems like the best choice, someone like Zsasz, perhaps (who had a cameo in the first film). Another possibility is to have Batman attempting to stop a number of villains while avoiding the authorities; in that case, just about anything is on the table. Or they could go with a more mob oriented storyline.
I personally think the Catwoman is a bad idea; she never really seems like a credible threat. Given Bruce’s new problems with the police, someone like Hush, who knows who Batman is, would pose a particular threat.
As for the current film, it is without a doubt the “feel-bad movie of the summer”. Still, a great film.
Schumacher wanted to use Batman: Year One, but Warners nixed it in favor of something with toys, which is why we got the Freezemobile instead.
I heard that Nolan also HATES the Penguin. So, while I’ve always considered him the #2 villain, I doubt he’ll be included.
I think Mr. Freeze has an interesting enough backstory to be in the next movie, assuming the pubic doesn’t associate the character with it’s last awful incarnation.
Riddler is too much of a comedy character to carry the film on his own. Sure, if they decide to focus more on the mob/police threat on Batman and include him as a diversion it could work…but this film was carried so much by the awesomeness of the Joker that they need a strong villain to keep the next film in it’s ballpark.
I don’t know though…just random speculation from talking to people after the movie.
I love Mr. Freeze; but i’m not quite sure he fits into this universe. Then again, I never thought they could pull off the Scarecrow and I think they did a nice job with him.
I think Riddler would work well if he were portrayed in a more serious way. Make Batman into even more of a detective to hunt Riddler down. Maybe he’s working with Harvey Dent.
BANE is the obvious best way to go. They cut him to shreds and turned him into a cartoon for Batman & Robin but he’s easily one of the most interesting and realistic characters of the comics AND his upbringing poses an interesting problem for Batman’s criminal justice philosophy.
I’m not entirely familiar with his storyline, but after browsing Wikipedia, I agree completely. It would be extrememly difficult, though: Like Venom in Spider-Man, Bane needs his own HBO mini-series where he’s almost the central character, because there’s just too much story there for one movie, even one that’s 150:00 in length.
However, using Bane and having him paralyze Batman would allow Bruce to get out of the crimefighting racket, which was a major theme in The Dark Knight.
The only thing that kept it from being the perfect movie experience that I had expected was the fact that I had so many unanswered questions, which made me feel like I missed some stuff. Apparently, Nolan intended that.
Spoiler Questions ahead for those who know Batman better!
Is Rachel dead for good? Normally, I would just assume yes and be over with….But after the confusion with Dent, and what happened to Gordon, it made me doubt whether she was gone? I know the coin was found, but that doesn’t mean anything. I really didn’t expect that. I’m actually in the minority of those who like her.
So what about Dent? It just seems silly to waste him in a last hour subplot when the character is so important. I think he needs to have a role in the next film for continuity.
That seemed like a really odd spot for Scarecrow. Did anyone else think that was rather pointless?
Other than those thoughts, I was blown away.
Rachel is completely new to the Batman universe, only appearing in Nolan’s movies. So I’d wager she’s actually dead.
I think she is. Her dying seemed to be about the only thing that would inspire so much anger in someone as good as Dent. If she wasn’t actually dead it would undo all of that. Like in Spider-Man 3 when Peter found out it was the Sandman that killed Ben: It would feel like all that previous emotion was wasted.
Oh, and I think the Scarecrow was there just because, at the end of the previous film, Gordon made a point of saying he was still out there causing mayhem. I can’t remember right now, but Scarecrow still isn’t dead yet, is he?
to jroc133:
Harvey Dent died at the end of the Batman movie, you can’t bring him back. Agreed on the action sequences, though, they moved to fast to the point you couldn’t see what was going on. That was my only point in an otherwise flawless movie. (Well, that and Christian Bale could have put on a little more muscle.)
I have absolutely no desire to see a movie with Robin or Catwoman. I think adding either of those two, would make the movie too cartoonish and take away from the serious tone which Chris Nolan has used in the last two and best Batman movies. (I never like the Burton or Schumacher versions.) So they have got to use a realistic type villain. Being that Ra Al Ghul and Joker were both anarchists, although with different motivations, I would try for another anarchist type character.
How about Killer Croc?!?!
One of the most retarded villains ever!
what about Hush?
Mr. Reese = Mysteries.
I saw the film again on Tuesday night (and thanks to Scott’s story of theatres being sold out well in advance, told my friend to order tickets online early in the day) and I grew to love it even more. BOTH times, someone said “It’s Zeus!” during the ferry scenes, but it was odd the second time since it was a kid no older than 11. Keep up the old school wrestling watching, kid!
Personally, I’d love to see a faithful adaptation of Bane. De-power him a little to make it more believable, but keep the drive and intelligence he had during his original comic appearances. And even though he’s a little outside of the Batman mythos, I think Prometheus could make a great antagonist as well.
They obviously Venom’d Two Face as he would have been the best villain for the third film.
Aside from another Joker appearance, but that obviously won’t happen. A real shame as Ledger’s Joker completely blew away Nicholson’s and I’m sad to know we won’t get any more appearances from his character in future films.
No one’s mentioned how ZEUS saved the day?!
It always comes back to wrestling, friends.
Ok first of all, Dent’s not dead. That was a mock funeral so the people wouldn’t know what he became. You can see him breathing as he lie on the ground, and if you read the movie synopsis online it says that the funeral was just Batman and Gordon agreeing that Dent should be thought of as a hero. Easy to say he’s dead, but also bring him back, depending on what they want.
And secondly, as much as I did love Ledger’s performance and think he does deserve the Oscar…who could dare fill his shoes for a Joker role? 2 words: Johnny Depp. He’s the only one who could do it, and potentially do it better. The only thing that Ledger missed as The Joker was his humor. Ledger just played him as a psycho (albeit played it DAMN WELL), whereas really, The Joker finds violence, chaos, and misery hysterically funny. It just needed a scene of him killing someone and howling on the floor about it. Still, an performance AND movie (even if Batman was barely in his own movie!).
And the 3rd villain in the series that most of this has been based off of, Batman: Year One, is the Riddler, so I have to imagine he’s next.
“Hunt The Dark Knight” could make for a good third installment. You could have Bats saving people while becoming an urban boogeyman while Gordon, fighting pressure to deliver his arrest, is undercut by the Mayor, who brings in an “elite” team. From there you could include types like the Riddler (in his latest incarnation as a shady PI — and hell, bring Carrey back for this), Deadshot, a reworked Bane … perhaps even David and Cassandra Cain?
No fucking way Cassandra Caine should be incorporated into the Batman movie. Barbara Gordon yes, but no fucking way should Gimp-Girl be allowed within a mile of the movie franchise.
Mr. Freeze is the most obvious pick for the next Batman villain. Just rip off the plot for his first appearance in BTAS and cast Anthony Hopkins in the role and you’ll have people forgetting Arnold ever camped up the role in the first place.
Riddler could work, especially if you emulate Frank Gorshin’s mob boss version of the character. Keep Jim Carrey the hell away from the role.
As for Bane, I think he could work so long as you bring in Catwoman or Batgirl to replace Azreal into the Knightfall equation. Bane severely wounds Batman, Catwoman and/or Batgirl are forced to defend the city against Bane, and Batman makes an eleventh hour recovery to beat Bane and rescue his replacement defender of Gotham from Bane’s clutches…..
I like the Knightfall parallel, but that’s why I recommended Cassandra; in this universe, Barbara is still a kid. The more I think about it, though, the more your approach lends itself to a Huntress debut …
I also loved the movie, but I was slightly miffed by the ending for two reasons.
1.) If Dent is dead, that was a bad decision. I know Ledger’s Joker is getting all the publicity, but I found Eckhart’s Dent/Two-Face to be just as compelling and he deserves a nomination as well. There is so much potential for a sequel with him, that it’s was a shame to kill him off so quickly.
2.) I found Batman’s speech in the end to be lame. They could have very easilly pinned those deaths on Joker and no one would question either one of them. This was done to do the cliche “Police are hunting Batman.” in the third movie.
As for a villain for the third one, what about Black Mask? He could very easilly control the mobs. Same goes for Ventriloquist.
What about one (or more, since there’s five of them) Clayfaces?
How about a combination Mr. Freeze/Firefly teamup?
It wasn’t totally clear from the movie, but I thought Batman took the fall for the murders and went on the run so he could set Gordon up to Harvey’s replacement as the “white knight” who could be Gotham’s public hero.
I can’t believe people are not getting the point of the ending. It really boggles my mind.
Bruce is doing it both to protect the “white knight” of Gotham AND to plant fear of him in the criminals.
Hell, three quarters of the damn movie is about how nobody fears Batman anymore because they know he won’t kill them! Now, if he’s going around murdering dirty cops, what hope does a petty thief have?
If he did that, he’d be no better than the Joker. There’s a difference between pinning the blame on himself than pinning the blame on someone who’s innocent of the crime besides him.
If you don’t understand that, then you don’t understand Batman.
He pretty clearly doesn’t understand the character anyway.
Utter fanwankery follows, mostly because I re-read “A Lonely Place of Dying” and “The Dark Knight Returns” a couple of days before seeing the movie:
Robin could totally work in the Nolan universe. Two-Face gets into the shakedown business and when the Haly Circus won’t pay, he kills their top two performers on the trapeze (because Two-Face just HAS to do some crime based on the number two), thus introducing Dick Grayson. The movie focuses on Batman chasing down Two-Face, avoiding Gordon, and taking down a C-list villain or two (I’d vote for the Ventriloquist and Scarface, just because I like them and I think a CGI Scarface would be awesome), and training Robin. Bruce/Batman gets a character arc where he starts to get over losing Rachel, Gordon, Dent, and Lucius; Batman has to decipher a bunch of dual clues because he’s the World’s Greatest Detective and hasn’t done a whole lot of on-screen detecting yet; the Dynamic Duo bring down Two-Face (because it *should* take two heroes to take him out) and clear Batman’s name. And just when it looks like everything’s gonna end happily… Robin tries to break up the wrong mob deal and the Joker kills him.
Naturally, the fourth movie would be the Joker working on the “anyone can go crazy if they have just one bad day” premise, trying to drive Batman insane because it’s his fault Robin is dead. And crippling either Gordon’s wife or daughter, and then dragging him to an abandoned amusement park. (Can you tell I like The Killing Joke a little too much?)
Also naturally, I have too much time on my hands, and I’m having trouble evaluating The Dark Knight for what it was, instead of what I wanted it to be.
My choices for possible villain, while keeping in mind that this is a more realistic universe that Nolan has created, are as follows:
1) If you get rid of the “Ghost Zone” and all the weird alien elements, I say Morrison’s Prometheus would be a hell of a match-up, especially if you get someone as aggressive as Bale for the role. What’s also great about Prometheus is that Catwoman ties into his story, as she’s the one who eventually helps Batman to defeat him. So you could have your cake and eat it too by throwing Catwoman into the equation.
2) I would actually LOVE if they cast Catwoman as a “cougar” (no pun intended) and actually had Michelle Pfeiffer reprise the role. I think it’d be awesome if Catwoman were older and not necessarily a youthful, vivacious vixen. It could be played that since she’s been “on the beat” (so to speak) as a vigilante longer than Batman, he could learn a thing or two from her. Of course, this would mean we wouldn’t see her origin story, but really, the reason TDK flowed so well was that there weren’t any villain origin stories weighing it down like in other superhero efforts. You could also conflict his attraction to Catwoman with his continued grief over Rachel. Bruce doesn’t know whether he can move on or not. Catwoman continues to test his resolve as he is torn between temptation/lust and justice/fidelity to Rachel’s memory. It writes itself.
3) I would love to see the Hush storyline played out on film, as the story features Bane and having him together with Hush automatically fulfills “the rule of two” that a lot of superhero movies suddenly appear to have when it comes to villains. Just somehow show that Thomas Wayne is directly responsible for saving Hush’s mom as a boy. You don’t even need to show the surgery, though it would be nice to see Thomas Wayne (a doctor) actually BE a doctor. People might forget he had a profession other than being rich.
4) Hugo Strange. A man who wants to overtake the role of Batman for himself? It could be really interesting, as it’s a meaty role. However, The Dark Knight already shot this idea in the foot by having multiple Batmen. If Strange wanted to take over being Batman, what would be stopping him from just doing it?
Basically, whoever the villain may be, it needs to be someone you don’t need CG for. Nolan has already said he does things in the old fashioned way (another reason I LOVE these movies. I’m sick to death of CGI everything, although I understand why it’s used, what with that guy being killed during a car stunt in the shooting of TDK). So no Killer Croc, Clayface, or Mr. Freeze. Besides, even if those latter three didn’t require CG, they don’t fit in with the more realistic universe Nolan’s created anyhow.
REAL QUICK QUESTION, BTW: Does anyone know what Rachel was going to say the second before she blew up? She started to say something, but then the explosion went off. I know it wasn’t accepting Harvey’s proposal, because she already said minutes before that her answer was “yes.” But she started to say something else, and I was wondering if anyone else had any thoughts on what. I might have missed the clues, so maybe it’s obvious and I just missed it. Any help?
Hugh Laurie = Joker 2.0
Ive only seen it on a dodgy downloaded version, but im going to see ti properly on Sunday. Anywho, I loved it, definitely deserves best picture so far and Ledger could walk away with Best Actor although in MHO, he wasnt acting., He was living the part which is why he’s dead, but that’s another argument.
I often tout Johnny Depp for any ‘alternative’ role and I love the guy, but i’ve always been glad he’s never got involved in Batman. it didnt need him and he didnt need it.
But now, my opinion is that Dpp is the only one who could play the Joker so soon and turn it in to his own. Just muy opinion.
A) Someone pointed out that they set up the Riddler before. Mr. Reese = Mysteries. But what about Michael Emerson (Ben from LOST) as the Riddler?
B) Black Mask would work REALLY well, and I kind of dig the idea of Harvey coming back.
C) Who is crazy enough to replace Heath Ledger as the Joker? And creepy and talented enough to pull it off? Crispin Fucking Glover.
I thought the action scenes were good…they did seem to want to fix the complaints about Begins. I think now that I let it sink in, and read up on TDK for things I didn’t “get” the first time around, I am appreciating it even more and I’d enjoy a second watch.
I expected Heath Joker to be darker and not so big on the laughs, as that’s what his inspiration (the first appearances in the comic) was. But he did a good job combining Nolan’s take/the serious edge and the humorous aspects. The Pencil = MAJOR MARK OUT. I also loved the nods to the comic Jokers; i.e. him disguised as a policeman with nothing but his smile to give him away (happened in I think the first ever Joker story…BTW, if you get to, pick up The Batman Chronicles books, which will presumably cover every Batman story in chronological order) and him changing his origin on the fly.
To the person who mentioned the “J.C.” words for a replacement Joker, BITE YOUR FREAKING TONGUE
Seriously, aside from having Schumacher taint, I think more than a person or two will agree with me that Carrey has grown to be rather annoying. And even if he DID do a good job, I still lose cause how could I still hate him if he did? 
Depp might be better, but overexposure, annoying fans, and his own pretentiousness have turned me against him somewhat.
Anyway, no matter how good a person they’d think of, who could follow TDK’s Joker????? Which brings me to…
Who to use in the third movie? The original plan was to make it about Two-Face, but the ending of TDK left that as a question. I wouldn’t mind if Dent being “dead” was a swerve, of course. Echart’s 2F = right up there with the Richard Moll version. BTW, Scott, you REALLY like Jonas Hex, don’t you? (You also mentioned him in a Superfriends review)
But if Dent will only appear in this movie, at least they used him such that it wasn’t a clusterfuck like what they did to Venom. Or the first time they used Two-Face (aka Joker in Two-Face’s Clothing, aka Pepto-Bismol Face). Or BANE in you-know-what…you think he was watered down in TAS? At least he wasn’t made into a retarded goon (and hey, with Zeus appearing in TDK, that means both of the Alliance to End Hulkamania’s freaks appeared in Batman movies!).
Catwoman can be done in a “realistic” Batman universe…but even with 4 years passed, is it still too soon after the Halle Berry fiasco? It did take 8 years to get past Batman and Robin, after all.
Nolan will not use Robin or Penguin. That’s that. (though the crooked businessman, “classy” version of the latter could work in the Nolanverse…I wonder if Nolan is thinking of the Danny DeVito version and that’s what turned him off?)
Ra’s, given his character’s nature, can come back any time (and you could do worse than expand upon the Neeson version), but Nolan may not be willing to stretch things to include the possibility of Lazarus Pits.
Ivy + Freeze = not realistic enough? Schumacher taint again?
Riddler = could work, but moreso the more cerebral version you saw in TAS than Gorshin/Carrey style. There’s the “Mr. Reese” (unintentional?) clue, and also “Mr. Nashton” (his original last name before changing it to “Nygma”) was mentioned in one of the viral newspapers.
Has anyone seen the TDK book that is out? Features the script and character concepts, think it’s really cool.
JONAH, not Jonas. Sorry…
To cabspaintedyellow: I don’t think she said anything important or revealed some secret. I’m pretty sure she was just continuing to tell Harvey she loved him, and Nolan had the explosion cut her off mid sentence in order to really shock the audience.
And I think all this villain talk is kind of silly. I mean, I understand people wanting to speculate and put out their dream scenarios, but I think the strength of these two films has been finding villains to fit in with an overall story, instead of just saying “Hey, let’s throw in Catwoman this time.” And I do think keeping Two Face around is a strong possibility, although they would have to do a better job of explaining why Batman would take the rap for a murderer who is still alive. Otherwise I don’t see why they couldn’t elevate Scarecrow’s role, and make him a little more ambitious after seeing the chaos that Joker caused.
Either way, after The Dark Knight I have full faith in anything Nolan does, Batman or otherwise.
You guys need to chill. Relax. Let this movie sink in before you naysayers and doom-gloomers come out and damn the inevitable third movie for the unenviable task of living up to this one.
I believe in Christopher Nolan.
I have it. Miley Cyrus as Catwoman and the Jonas Brothers playing The Penguin, The Riddler and Superman, but a bad Superman, but with great hair and who totally rocks out.
Oh, and for the older fans, Batman will no longer be played by Christian Bale, but Joey McIntyre.
The Penguin, the REAL one, is a money-obsessed, highly intelligent Mobster with a beak nose. No more, no less. How the hell can that not work in this version? You have the majority of the mob locked up awaiting trial, Penguin immediately rockets to power and then works WITH the police to catch Batman, forcing Gordon to publicly support him but try and work against him.
And you can just have Catwoman as a background thing, have things go missing at just the wrong time…
I know, which is why I wonder if the DeVito one is so entrenched in people’s minds. One of the few positive changes in the animation styles going from B:TAS to TNBA (Fox to WB) was when Bruce Timm redid the Burtonesque design, and added the Iceberg Lounge stuff.
I think you’re both wrong.
1, I think a bunch of actors could still play the Joker or even the Heath-Joker. They’re actors, it’s what they do. I don’t know if they’d want lots of scenes with the guy though or even bother for a third installment.
2, the next bad guy will be….
Anyone, and a bunch of them. The story’s main bad guy is the Mob. The next movie should therefore be about the last of the mob dying out and being replaced by super villains. Super Villains who all have a gimmick because they ALL want to top the Joker. I think Scarecrow foreshadows this.
That’s why I think Joker would be mentioned in reference but not even used. You could have anyone from a Poison Ivy to a Penguin since all criminals would want to dress up and fill the void of the jailed Joker and dying Mob.
I could see Ra Gul returning. We never did see him dead. I could see a surprise return with him saying, “Told you so” to Bruce.
I doubt anyone could follow Ledger or would want to but a few candidates that come to my mind are James Spader, Michael Madsen, and Lane Davies. Maybe Steve Buscemi, too.
Kevin Spacey as a reinvented Mr. Freeze.
Would love it.
I would be for them doing “The Cult”. Batman in hiding gets abducted by Deacon Blackfire – kills the innocent guy, thinking he is Joker. It would work in the Nolan universe.
First off just a great movie! Both Begins and TDK sit atop the list of my favorite comic book movies of all time. And in both cases I went in not expecting much as I was never a huge Batman fan for Begins and I just assumed TDK could never live up to original. But God what great scripts. I was constantly surprised, enthralled and entertained and there was not one time I thought to myself, “I would have done something else.”
My wife who is not a comic fan and who tends to lose interest in any movie that is over two hours long loved every second of it.
I really hope that the combination of the movie quality and the morbid curiosity over Ledger’s death combine to help it outperform the badly overrated Spiderman movies.
Just everything I would want out of a movie.
And, adding to the conversation about the 3rd. Someone suggested using “The Cult” as source material. That is some pretty heavy stuff, but I think Nolan could pull it off.
But, I think that after the Joker (who is both Batman’s top villain and a performance that will always be marked with tragedy.) the smart road would be to not have a single opponent try and carry the film..
But, I would have a series of Batman’s B villains (Man Bat, Croc, The Ventriloquist, Clay Face… and whoever) headlined by the Riddler all causing havoc as Gothem descends in to a city that is caused by and dependent on Batman. You can really push one of the central focuses of the Batman mythos- the idea that while he is the protector of the city he is also the reason the villains are so much more than common criminals. It could all lead to the creation of Arkham Asylum proper (and if you are willing to recast the Joker at that point, Arkham Asylum (the story) would make a great plot.)
Whatever they decide to do, I am there.
I know this was long but one last thought- If they can make Iron Man and The Dark Knight, smart movies that stayed largely true to the source material and made a boatload of money- why do we still have to endure shit like the Fantastic Four and (shudder) Superman Returns?