Hey, Scott, don't know if you remember me. Michaelangelo, the semi-retired editor of Popcorn Junkies. Got a question for you. Being from Dallas, I grew up on WCCW, and of course we all remember the XMas match between Kerry Von Erich and Ric Flair. Terry Gordy slamming the cage door on Kerry's head launched the Von Erich/Freebird feud, one of the greatest feuds in wrestling history. It got me to thinking about pivotal moments in wrestling, moments that changed the course of the industry, like Hall and Nash showing up in WCW or the Bret/SCSA double turn. What would be your list of the 10 most pivotal moments in wrestling? Say, from 1980 on. Would the cage door make your list?
Well, let's wing it and see. We'll make it simpler and limit this to storyline "moments" rather than actual industry moments like the first Wrestlemania or Nitro launching.
- Hulk Hogan wins WWF title from Iron Sheik, makes millions for company for years afterwards.
- Bret Hart loses fake title to Shawn Michaels in french-speaking city, setting off improbable chain of events that destroys WCW and makes Vince into a billionaire.
- Scott Hall shows up on Nitro making vague references to a takeover, creates multimillion dollar merchandise operation as a result.
- Terry Gordy slams cage door on Kerry Von Erich, indirectly kills everyone in the family as a result. And himself. Years later, Michael Hayes calls someone a bad name and loses his job, having only been winged by the curse.
- Sting wins WCW World title from Hulk Hogan, looks like a chump in the process, shattering his mystique and killing their one shot at a superhero character to compete with the WWF.
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Tags: Bret Hart, Hulk Hogan, Iron Sheik, Nitro, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Sting, Stupid lists, WCW, Wrestlemania, WWF
Terry Gordy slams cage door on Kerry Von Erich, indirectly kills everyone in the family as a result. And himself. Years later, Michael Hayes calls someone a bad name and loses his job, having only been winged by the curse.
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Clarify this one Scott, it’s WAY too vague
I think what Scott is saying is that WCCW took off and as a result, all the Von Erichs died indirectly.
Heck if WCCW doesn’t take off, Mike Von Erich doesn’t injure himself in Israel and David doesn’t die in Japan plus Fritz wouldn’t be such a horrible father.
Hayes is only winged by the curse because he’s still alive. Gordy is dead. The Von Erichs (except for Kevin is dead) and Buddy Roberts is speaking through a synthesizer because of throat cancer. So Hayes was only slightly hurt by the curse as compared to everyone else (including Kevin who had to bury all his brothers).
I think Fritz would still have been a horrible father, regardless. And they all would have died…eventually. So it’s moot. Yep.
I think if WCCW doesn’t take off, I think they probably all live.
Fritz was always going to be a horrible father, I think the fact that he was their boss too at WCCW made it that more unbearable.
Sigh.
Two reasons I’m guessing…
First off: WCCW took off because of the Freebird/Von Erich feud, and with it came fame, fortune, and lots of drugs which led to the deaths of the Von Erichs and the territory.
Second: Kerry’s painkiller addiction allegedly stems from the cage door spot.
I don’t buy it one bit though. In the early 80s, drug culture in college was at it’s all time peak. I’m sure he was an adict of multiple substances before he even got into wrestling.
What about Steve Austin talking about Jake’s bible and John 3:16? Even when watching it live, you could feel the electricity.
I think bigger than #1 is Verne Gagne refused to take the belt off Nick Bockwinkel until Hogan would agree to give Gagne 50% of his Japan bookings. Hogan refused, made the deal with WWF and then dethroned the Sheik.
I think it’s bigger than #1 because of Verne’s stubborness, he destroyed the AWA and gave the WWF the superstar needed to go national.
What about Armageddon 1999 when Stephanie joined HHH? Assuming that they would not have gotten together if they hadn’t spent so much time working together, it had big ramifications.
Not sure if the formation of the 4 horsemen fits anywhere on the list.
The episode in which Heyman reunites ECW for an episode of RAW was awesome…until they quickly merged with the WCW rejects and formed the awful Alliance.
You can’t pinpoint that moment though.
And the ECW thing, while cool, hardly shook the industry.
Long Live the Alliance!
The Austin 3:16 speech has to be #1, no? Without it…there’s no Attitude era, no Austin/McMahon, heck, there might not even be a WWE without it. I still get a kick out of the spontaneous crowd pop when he says, “Austin 3:16 says I just whipped your ass”
And the Rocky/Triple H feud of 1998, maybe the ladder match at SummerSlam, is a huge moment since it made both guys and those two (one or the other or both) basically carried the company through the golden years with Austin.
I also think Steamboat/Savage should be mentioned since it changed the industry in an indirect way because it opened the door for actual wrestling to be accepted (at least in the WWF) and has been cited by many wrestlers as the impetus to get into wrestling, Jericho in particular has said that a few times.
This is probably a whole new topic for discussion but…do you not think Austin and attitude era would’ve happened without the KOTR speech? Austin 3:16 was a great catchphrase and summed up the new direction but the character of Stone Cold Steve Austin had already been created before KOTR. He still would’ve put in excellent ring performances and delivered intense promos.
So long as Austin had his feud with Bret Hart then I think everything would have worked out for WWE in any case. After all, it’s not like Austin set the world alight between KOTR and Bret’s return.
I’d even venture to say that had the curtain call not happened and HHH won KOTR 1996, Austin STILL would’ve made it as big as he did because Bret would have wanted to work with Austin more then HHH.
Great list Scott. I don’t think there is much (if anything) to add.
While I agree that the birth of Austin 3:16 is important, it was not really a storyline turning point – Austin was already growing as anti-hero – he just stumbled upon a great/marketable catchphrase that encompassed his bad-ass persona. It wasn’t the catalyst for the Attitude era — one could argue that it era evolved from a combination of the Austin gun incident, the MSG crowd cheering a cheating Sid over babyface HBK, Bret swearing/turning heel, and the Montreal Screwjob creating Mr. McMahon.
I also disagree with the argument on the HHH/Rocky ladder match. These two would have been stars by hook or crook, the one match didn’t make them stars overnight. It still took HHH a year to win the Heavyweight Belt.
If anything, I would include the Mankind/Taker HitC match:
– It was the biggest stunt-spot of the time and a complete surprise. (Mick off cage)
– It had been emulated endlessly, and gave garbage wrestling instant (mainstream) credibility.
– It changed the way fans viewed wrestlers (Mick threw the cage). Humanizing them in some ways by demonstrating the real suffering that wrestlers put their body threw for entertainment. Basically acknowledging wrestling as “Sports Entertainment”
– It made Mick the first WWF/E STAR who wasn’t a chiseled body builder, lean technician, or mammoth monster. Quirky character traits became as important as physical presence and wrestling aptitude.
The WWF had no interest in pushing Austin past the mid-card if he didn’t catch fire with the Austin 3:16 speech. It was the catalyst for the Attitude era because Austin’s character was all about attitude. It was then and there the light went on for Vince (or more accurately Shane, if it was really his push to change the product) that they had to go in a new direction. Austin also had to be over enough to work with Bret — the WWF wasn’t going to waste Bret’s return on a feud with a guy not on his level.
And if you’re talking about Foley and non-stereotypical wrestlers getting over, you’d really have to look more at the breaking kayfabe interview he did with JR in 1997. Him getting tossed off of the cell was just his signature moment, it didn’t really change anything. If anything, it was the worst thing that could happened to the business because it became too much about spots and insanity instead of actual wrestling.
I never said those bumps were a good thing or that they changed wrestling for the better — just that the match was a pivotal moment that changed the direction of wrestling.
I had forgotten about those interviews with JR where they go into the history of Cactus Jack and revealed the Dude Love character. You have a point there.
I’m gonna say, just for fun, the whole situation involving the transformation of Eastern Championship Wrestling into Extreme Championship Wrestling, including (but certainly not limited to) Shane Douglas throwing down the NWA title.
The argument can be made that this put ECW as we knew it on the map and helped turn it into something more than just a regional indy fed. This in turn helped create an environment where everyone from Jericho to Eddie to Mysterio to, yes, Benoit, could get exposure and go to national companies. The argument could also be made that Extreme CW gave the WWF a template for the Attitude Era. So there you go.
I would put the Montreal Screwjob on the list simply since it gave birth to Mr. McMahon and basically ended Bret Hart’s career despite him being in WCW.
How about the Hogan/Warrior match at WM6. You can basically call that the beginning of the end of Warrior’s popularity/sanity.
The whole Matt Hardy/Lita/Edge triangle. Edge was having trouble becoming a main eventer and seemed destined to be just a good upper-midcarder until his affair with Lita.
The RAW after Summerslam 97 where Shawn turned heel and DX soon forms. Also Sgt Slaughter becomes one of the first commisssioners in the WWE.
Hogan’s Bash at the Beach heel-turn.
That Raw is on 24/7 right now. Just about every Raw from that one until December has something that is history-making. The formation of DX, the debut of Kane (can’t deny he was a player in the Attitude years), the XXX files with Pillman & Marlena where the WWF starts pushing the envelope with the sex and follows it up with the push of Sable, the WWF debut of Cactus Jack, Austin stunnering authority figures, Vince’s “Bret screwed Bret” interview and the Rock’s heel turn. Heck, even the New Age Outlaws coming together is historic in retrospect considering how over they got in 98 & 99.
I can’t think of anything the WWE has done on Raw in ages that has been as significant as any of those.
Agreed. The next several months of the Monday Night Wars should be tremendous. Even Nitro has alot of stuff on the horizon: the debut of Goldberg, nwo/Horsemen feud with Curt Hennig’s involvement, Rick Rude’s appearance on both shows, Jericho’s heel turn, and the final Sting/Hogan build-up. Looking forward to revisiting all of that.
Brillient! I need to stop by and read your rants more often Scott.
I’m surprised the Fingerpoke of Doom hasn’t been cited yet! Just kidding.
Here are some more random ones I can think of:
1. Diesel calling out Vince–”the announcer”– in 1995 for making him into a “corporate puppet” during his run as Champion.
2. WCW signs Hogan in 1994.
3. Vince McMahon Jr.’s Titan Sports Corporation acquires the necessary assets to take control of the World Wrestling Federation from Vince McMahon, Sr. in 1982.
4. Monday Nitro Debuts in September of 1995 with Lex Luger’s infamous appearance.
I think there’s room for Mankind’s title win in Worcester in the discussion, because that’s the first time (at least, the first that I can remember) where the television audience clearly chose to watch the taped match that at least some of the audience knew the ending of instead of the “anything can happen! surprises galore!” live show.
No pivotal moment list can be complete without the Repo Man’s attack on Macho Man, where he REPOSSESED MACHO’S HAT BY GAWD!!! Definitely the first “anything can happen” moment to take place on MNR.
One of the most important nights in wrestling has to be June 25th 2007. I know it is not an angle or a storyline, but his has changed wrestling. No longer is the wellness policy regarded as a joke, and guys like Scott Hall and Jake Roberts have taken advantage of the chance to possibly save their lives thanks to WWE paying for rehab. Chris Benoit might actually save more lives than he took. Though he can never be considered a hero, his actions woke up the world, and helped bring recognition to all the wrestlers who left us way before their time.
To correct myself the 24th is the day of the murders, but the 25th is the day wrestling changed
It’s pretty pathetic that the death of Eddie Guerrero…or all the 80s stars (Henning, Boss Man, Bam Bam, etc.) didn’t make the WWE do anything.
It’s very telling to watch the NWA from 1986 and realize how so many of those guys are still alive (save, sadly, for guys like Boss Man that ended up in the WWF) and how the WWF shows from the same time period are filled with guys who are no longer with us. That’s what upsets me about McMahon’s bullshit about it being an “industry” problem when it is definitely more a WWF problem.
The reason why nothing was done before, was because guys like Guerrero died from past drug problems, while Benoit murdered his family, which became a national story, one that Vince couldnt turn a blind eye to. In defense of Vince, guys like Rude, Guerrero and Hennig actually started in places like the NWA and AWA. In the 80’s Vince didnt develop talent, he took it from other organizations.
I don’t know about that. There’s just as many Buzz Sawyer’s, and Gino Hernandez’, and Joey Maggs’, and Terry Gordy’s, etc., etc. etc. (honestly, I could name 20-30 more)
Just watch Jimmy Garvin’s home video collection and see guys like Hawk & Luger completely bombed out of their minds on coke, right before there matches are on.
Vince McMahon did nothing wrong, but public opinion and press = money and Vince is only covering his butt in the long run for the money. He didn’t kill Nancy. He didn’t force William Regal to fall off the wagon.
It might be what was expected of them, but legally Vince wasn’t bound to anybody. And lets face it, drug use and whatnot was used long before Vincent Kennedy McMahon.
The guy came from a broken home, learnt stuff the hard way – found you had to play dirty to make money – and never really let emotions stop him from making millions. In a way its heartless, and maybe this is his downfall for all that. Who knows.
Orton beating Benoit for the title at Summerslam 04, in hind-sight, was buisness changing – maybe not in the top five – probably top ten.
But then I watch Orton’s body shrink for the last six months leading up to WM 24 and suddenly AT WM24, he’s got that great physique. *sigh* I thought the buisness might change for the better when ol’ Crippler went off the deep end and the E started testing…no way, man.
Let’s not forget Summerslam ‘97 and the Owen/Austin match.
If that piledriver hadn’t gone so wrong the WWF/E “Main Event” Style of brawling might not have happened and Austin might still be around today.
Good point on both counts, though with his knees I don’t know if he’d STILL be around for more than one match a year.