Booking questions
“Hi there, hope you are well. Just a couple of quick questions for the blog (I’m still unsure how to do this directly through the blog). First off, I was recently thumbing through Bill Watts’ book, and it got me to wondering just how much influence/credit he deserves for the Attitude era, which is quite comical considering who he is. It’s quite obvious that Vince clearly had no clue what he was doing with the promotion when he brought the Cowboy in during the summer/fall of 95. And its also clear that Watts was able to show Vince that there were other ways of doing things, which Vince eventually got into his head. Curious about your thoughts on the matter.
Also wondered how you think Hunter will do with the booking/creative duties (as it seems to be heading to from all that I’ve heard) as a non-wrestler. I think we can all agree that his booking while still active is bad news all around, but after his 5th or 6th quad blow-out, and he has to retire, do you think he has the acumen to book beyond his own programs? Do you think he will do good, decent, horrid or something else entirely? Curious about your thoughts on the matter? ”
Answer #1: I love Bill Watts to death, but he was totally out of touch with wrestling by the time 1995 rolled around and to say that he could teach Vince anything other than occasionally putting the heel over stronger would be giving him far too much credit at that point. The Attitude era was pretty much 100% Vince & Vince trying to sleaze it up ala ECW, and reading anything more into it is just asking for trouble, sez I.
Answer #2: Hunter’s a big-time student of the game who has long been championing a return to the old style of working. He was a big reason why we got the transition from 90 second RAW matches back to actual beginning-middle-end stories being told in the ring, as painful as it was from 2001-2005 for fans to have to relearn it. How he will do booking an entire promotion remains to be seen, but it seems like it would be a flashback to the NWA days if he ever does get 100% control of the book. I am cautiously optimistic about it.
Hunter is one of the most talented wrestlers ever with an incredibly strong work ethic. To work matches that long, that frequently, at that top level for so long is incredibly grueling and he deserves a lot of credit. Certainly his push was not commensurate to his abilities in 2003 when he was obviously bloated and hurt and a little power drunk but outside of that I think he’s been a consummate professional. Nobody has put over any of the younger guys the way he did, he legitimized John Cena who they’ve been running with at the top in a position way above HHH for the past year and a half since WM22. Raw was really sad, sloppy, and pathetic this year without him. I think while he may probably be a jerk I think he earned the right to be one.
Watts never gets credit for shit. Whenever I hear people talk about how bad WCW was in 1992 I want to slap them in the face. He may have treated the wrestlers like pack animals but usually worst match of the night honors were around **1/2 during his reign and that’s because he kept his undercard matches around 6 minutes so they didn’t have enough time to build to be any better.
I completely agree with Scott on both these issues.
HHH would be a great booker. If he had booked WWF in the mid 80’s Billy Jack Haynes would have gotten at least a 3 month Title reign while they toured the west coast. The guy understands the buisness!
Second, fuck Bill Watts.
My only concern is that Stephanie will be around and she’s all about the “tv writers” type bullshit. The key is for HHH to be able to keep her crap to a minimum and change wrestling back to old school style because a change is sorely needed.
Well, Watts did have a very direct influence on the Attitude era as he was the one who brought Vince Russo in on the booking meetings. Also, without Jim Ross there to provide a lot of input, I don’t think the Attitude era would have been nearly as successful, so he’s also influential in that way.
My big concern with HHH as head booker isn’t that he won’t push good workers, but that he likes toilet jokes and fifth grade humor so much that it’ll dominate every storyline. He might book a thirty minute main Event between Edge and CM Punk, but I don’t know if it’s worth watching if it’s built around a four month storyline of “Who Farted in front of Shane McMahon?”
Bill Watts and Fritz Von Erich were the two best bookers I’ve ever seen in my life. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong.
That you’ve seen in your life? Not knowing who else you’ve seen, that’s pretty hard to argue.
I would also add Heyman’s name to that list as well, albeit not without a little trepidation. When he wasn’t preoccupied booking just for shock value, Paul knew how to tell an intriguing story in the ring.
And since we’re on the subject of booking and all, anyone check out the results for Unforgiven? Sheesh! As a loyal wrestling fan of over twenty years, it’s shows like this that make me reconsider my devotion to this sport.
Because?
Unforgiven was nothing more than a glorified RAW Super Show. It is clear that WWE creative is operating on a cruise-control mentality. “John Cena is DQ’d?? What?! I paid $35 for this?!?! (which I didn’t, thank God!)” Batista wins the belt against Mysterio and the immobile object, Khali? Really? Where is the thrill in all of this? WWE used to be the king of must-see PPVs. Now, everything is seemingly booked on a cocktail napkin with no real thought going into any of it. CM Punk vs. Elijah Burke could have been great, but you should know by now we’ll just be force-fed that same match at least a few more times (until Morrison returns) on ECW on Sci-Fi, so why bother? True, you could argue that alot of key talent is away vis-a-vis the suspensions and all, but what about creating new stars (which they looked to be doing with Sandman before his untimely release) when something like this inevitably happens? I hate to sound so jaded here, but I just can’t entertained by a company that obviously quit caring about their core product a long time ago.
When you have 12+ PPVs a year, then one of the side-effects is that you’re going to get screwy finishes in some cases. If you decide that you want Cena - Orton to be a feud that lasts several months, then at show like Unforgiven you’re going to have inconclusive finishes. You’re not going to see many feuds finished at shows like Unforgiven.
This is true. However, I believe there are better ways to draw a feud out than to have a rip-off screw job. Eddie Guerrero (RIP) and JBL is a good example of this. I am not sure I would necessarily have wanted to see Cena vs. Orton deteriorate into a horrific bloothbath like Guerrero/JBL had at Judgment Day ‘04, but there has to be better ways to go about it as opposed to having Cena get DQ’d for breaking the antiquated five-second rule. Yes, Eddie was DQ’d at JD ‘04, but the match was so emotionally charged that the viewer was not made to feel like they were ripped off. Perhaps it would have been better if Cena went ballistic and was DQ’d for beating the life out of Orton with various weapons of plunder. Orton, providing he is physically able to later on, could gloat that Cena’s uncontrolable rage will be his downfall. A sobbing Cena, on the other hand, could realize that maybe, just maybe, Orton is right. A sobering empty arena interview with Jim Ross could further drive this point home. Showcasing this side of Cena serves two purposes: A) it prolongs the feud going into No Mercy. B) it makes Cena seem vulnerable (something the WWE has not done a very good job of illustrating). Having Cena and his father kick Orton and shove down Coach does little more than continue to make Cena look like Superman. At this point, you could have Cena vs. the entire United States Army and it would be a forgone conclusion that he would walk away with his held high and still remain the WWE champion (see also H, Triple).
Even Stevie Wonder can see that with the way Cena has been booked and all. Heck, WWE understood this formula perfectly in the case of The Rock. His Fully Loaded match with Chris Benoi–err–”he who shall not be named” showed us that anything could happen. Unforgiven could have allowed for a new vulnerable side of Cena to emerge, but instead, Orton appears to become cannon fodder for yet another Cena victory. Again, at this point, why should I even care?
“He was a big reason why we got the transition from 90 second RAW matches back to actual beginning-middle-end stories being told in the ring, as painful as it was from 2001-2005 for fans to have to relearn it.”
Or, in other words, “….as painful as it was from 2001-2005 to lose all those fans in terms of ratings, attendance, and PPV buyrates.” Let’s face it, as a booker, HHH sucks. WWE matches have become *painfully* boring. I love ROH, a promotion built around matches done old school style, and HHH is no Gabe. In fact, screw it, keep HHH away from the book and bring Gabe in.
Gabe is the absolute definition of overrated.
Can someone tell me what it was in particular that made Watts’ shows so good? I’ve always been curious to know how the whole Mid-South went.
Watts also greatly benefited from having an incredibly simple fanbase. Its way more dificult to book in todays era of smart fan. Watts had a way easier job because everybody believed that it was real.
Watts also did not belittle his audience with sports-entertainment gobbledygook. Watts treated his product as though it were a true life-or-death sport (see his impassioned promo before the DiBiase-Flair “bloodbath” match for a great example of this).
I agree with John Sorrow; Unfortunately, I doubt we will ever see wrestling marketed this way again. While pro wrestling has always required the viewer(s) to maintain a suspended disbelief of sorts, the internet has completey erradicated any doubt as to the validity of the product. The internet has been a great medium with which to further educate ourselves about the wrestlers/promotions, but it has also taken away the magic involved with wrestling. Everyone knows that Vegas style magician really didn’t cut that lady in half during his show, but the fun is lost once you know how the trick is done, right? (”those aren’t her legs in that other box. They belong to someone else”.)
Think about it: What would you old-school NWA fans have thought about that product if information regarding bookings and backstage deals were so readily available in the 80’s? Suddenly, the Dusty Rhodes vs. The Horsemen and Ricky Steamboat vs. Ric Flair matches would have seemed a whole lot less exciting, wouldn’t it?